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To: Greg F

No, it is you who is misrepresenting what “eternal” means. You are assuming it means “self-existent” despite the lack of any proof. I can cite numerous biblical precedents where olam is used in reference to things that had a beginning. You then blissfully disregard the fact the same Hebrew word is used for things that are obviously not self-existent. Who exactly is twisting words here?

What God was before he created the universe, with its space and time is irrelevant to the fact Mormonism teaches he existed before the universe was created. Thus he is “eternal” since he existed before time.

Regardless, now that I know what kind of person you are; I’ll keep your character in mind whenever I respond to you. a “Christian” indeed.


571 posted on 07/10/2007 3:23:43 PM PDT by Edward Watson (Fanatics with guns beat liberals with ideas)
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To: Edward Watson

If he was born how could he exist before he existed? If he didn’t exist then he is not eternal. What you need to do NEED to do, is take a serious look at Joseph Smith. I can point you to outright lies made by Joseph Smith to the Church:

Joseph Smith is provably a liar. Toward the end of Smith’s life people began to learn of his polygamy, which he kept hidden. William Law was Joseph Smith’s second counselor in the church’s First Presidency. He filed suit against Joseph Smith for living ``in an open state of adultery’’ with 19-year-old Maria Lawrence.

In 1844, Joseph Smith already had at least 33 wives

http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insacred.htm#chart

Joseph Smith falsely denied he was a polygamist:

What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors.

Here is a link to the actual sermon where he falsely denied polygamy in response to the accusations:

http://www.boap.org/LDS/History/History_of_the_Church/Vol_VI

Do a find for: “Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.”

Similarly I can show you that the Book of Mormon was written by a man, not God, and is false prophecy because incorrect.

You don’t need the Holy Spirit to escape a cult. God (the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega, who existed before “In the beginning” — the real eternal God), God gave you a mind. You can blinker yourself to all evidence or you can find the truth and believe in Christ. “In the beginning was the word . . .” The beginning being “the beginning,” not an intermediate point in an a eternal universe that creates God.

Basically, your theology is “There is not a beginning, but there was a universe and it created God, but was not God . . .”

That theology was created by a proven liar.


598 posted on 07/10/2007 4:16:29 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Edward Watson
No, it is you who is misrepresenting what “eternal” means.

The Clinton defense: "It depends on what 'is' is."

642 posted on 07/11/2007 5:30:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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