You said: It was difficult to follow your post. But still, yes, in a previous post you did admit that it was "natural" to become like Jesus. I provided several scriptures to show that is not just "unnatural", but it is impossible and it is the sin of pride, as was Satan's that we can become like God.
You supplied several scriptures that you then interpreted as meaning it was impossible, and a sin. I disagree with your interpretation, the rest of your reasoning being built on this faulty interpretation of the bible falls of it's own weight.
I am not trying to argue with you, just tell you I disagree with your interpretation, and I really don't have to argue your interpretation, just tell you I disagree.
You said: I did make a mistake on my post in saying that it was the lie of Satan when it should have said one of his lies. And it is a main one. The sinful nature of man desires to be like God. Not just in knowing good and evil, but in many, many ways. And Satan preys on that prideful, sinful nature in man, to the effect that if they just do all these things, one of them even being that they say the "believe" in Jesus, that they will have eternal life. Nonetheless, it does not negate the whole point, in that man desires to be like God and that is a root of many, if not all sin.
Satan did not lie when he told Eve in
Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
Satan actually told the truth here God says So in
Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
Your whole premise here is that Satan lied to eve about becoming like God and that it was a sin, satan did not lie, and it was not a sin, the rest of your post goes increasingly away from the truth form there on.
You said: Mormons not only denied the God of the bible by redefining who He is, not just the Father, but God the Son and even God the Holy Spirit, and then it adds to that blaspheme by saying that you have to DO things to earn your way to heaven. Your posts and others Mormon apologists here have confirmed that.
From your perspective Everything you just said is true, from mine it is all 100% wrong. Since God is separate from Jesus in physical form and they both have a Body of flash and bone (now that Jesus is resurrected) and the holy Ghost is a Spirit and they are one in purpose as Jesus said in
John 17:22 Which says "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" This is a simile drawn by Jesus Christ himself as to the Oneness of the Godhead (biblical term here, unlike trinity or Triune which are not in the bible)
So, from my perspective the blasphemy was perpetrated by Constantine a pagan who changed the very beliefs of the church and completed the apostasy of the early Christian church by mandating a change (destroying the former beliefs of the Arians, Justin Martyr, and Hippolytus to name a few) with this act the Catholic church rejected centuries of belief and the testimony of the apostles, and began to mix greek philosophy in with scripture and mysticism, thus it lost the Authority in all respects that it had already been losing through unrighteous dominion.
My position and perspective is just as valid as yours, and just as supportable from scripture it is sad that you have been too close minded to understand that so far.
You said: However, as the Word says in 1 John, any teaching (spirit) that denies that God Himself, the Holy One of Israel become flesh to die, once and for all for our salvation is not of God. Mormons not only denied the God of the bible by redefining who He is, not just the Father, but God the Son and even God the Holy Spirit, and then it adds to that blaspheme by saying that you have to DO things to earn your way to heaven. Your posts and others creations apologists here have confirmed that.
You guys crack me up, you keep running for the side line of but you already confirmed my point of view when we have not. LOL! Are you truly that afraid of an open and hones discussion?
If we are right about God, then you are the one who is blaspheming, and you can verbally jump up and down all you want but the fact is that our interpretation is just as valid as yours, and makes more sense.
The work you are so upset about makes more sense, we believe that when we accept Jesus we will keep his commandments. What you appear to be promoting is that all you have to do is accept Jesus and you don't have to change a thing in your life for Jesus has already saved you, so sin all you want, it's been paid for (which in my view makes God the author of more sin, and in my view is yours is the doctrine of laziness -- Join Our church, be saved, keep sinning, go to heaven). From my perspective what you are preaching makes absolutely no sense Biblically.
You said: Either the Almighty, One and Only God Himself has already redeemed us because we are unable, or He has not. You have said that over, and over in many forms, if not using those exact words.
Jesus has indeed paid for our sins. We may not be saved if we do not accept him and start obeying his commandments. It's a contract that he has already kept his end of, we just have to keep ours and it takes more than just lip service.
You said: Scripture makes if very clear that those who deny Him, as the Mormons do, are not of His fold.
Mormons do many things, deny Christ is not one of them.
You said: Now, there are many who claim to know Him, who do not try to redefine God, but yet in their hearts, their trust is still in themselves.
You claim to know him, yet you believe in the redefinition that happened in 325 AD, pity.
You said: But other cults, such as LDS, DO make it much easier to spot.
LOL, the name calling begins! Ok, Continues! All organized religion is technically a cult, so while technically correct, you are using it in the pejorative sense, which is incorrect. Mormons are no more a cult than the Catholics or the methodists or the pentacostals or any other Protestant church you care to name.
That does not mean they aren't nice and friendly people, it just means they don't belong to His fold. His definition, not mine.
Your definition, not his, your interpretation, not his, you judge us, and not righteously,
You said: You confess a Jesus that is not of the bible.
I confess the Jesus of the Bible by the correct interpretation, you confess one created by a pagan Emperor of Rome.
You said: The Mormon Jesus is simply not the Jesus of scripture.
Actually, We know Jesus much better than you would think, modern revelation and all that.
You said: I also understand that you cannot see that at this time. Perhaps some day you will.
Right back at you, and actually, I am the one who can see both perspectives here, you don't even admit the possibility that my perspective might have merit. It's almost like you are afraid I might be right and you are fighting against it because of that fear.
You said: I realize that you are trying to shoot me down.
I have no interest in "Shooting you down" I would rather build you up and teach you truth, I would rather testify that Jesus Lives and that he has saved you if you will just accept his atonement and begin keeping his commandments!
But you would rather argue points of Doctrine, sigh.
You said: I really don't care. I am not out to "trap" anyone, but to expose what is not God's truth when it is proclaimed that it is God's Truth.
Your posts here belie your words. However, you must understand that I believe I have all the truth you are trying to offer me, plus some added perspectives. what you offer me is the opportunity to forget additional truth and light. Sorry, not interested.
You said: I am not ashamed of the gospel, that it is Jesus Christ, the Almighty God in the flesh, who was was the fulfillment, completion of the Law so that all those who call on His name, His nature, will be saved.
Great, I call upon his name, I obey his commands, I am following his will to the best of my imperfect ability. I am saved. Yet, you deny me event the name Christian.
You said: It isn't about me, or you or Joseph Smith or anyone else except the Lord God, Jesus Christ.
On that we can completely agree. It's all about Jesus, not us, not any mere mortal like Joseph Smith, prophet or not, it's not about Joseph, it's about Jesus.
You said: When you can address all the other scriptures that have been posted, then I would be happy to address the small issue that you have for trying to make men into gods which seems like you just tried to deny that you said you believe. Otherwise, I really don't have the time for this. I love to discuss God's Word, but only if it is a true discussion that is edifying and exalts His Name.
I have no interest in addressing all the scriptures posted by everyone, as for the ones you posted, I'll take a look, but since they are based upon a false premise (that Satan lied when he told eve she would learn the difference between Good and Evil and thus be like God, God confirmed that statement) Forgive me for lumping your scriptures together in responses, but I am not going to be repetitive, I have had complaints about the size of my posts, and I am trying to cut down. I am going to link your scriptures, and only quote the salient parts.
Isaiah 14:13-14 will make myself like the Most High
We do not propose to make ourselves like creations most high, we propose to keep God's commands and if we are worthy to be exalted to such a station we will be happy to accept it, but it will be God's doing, not ours.
Ezekiel 28:2, 10you have said, 'I am a god
Tyrus and Zidon had proclaimed themselves to be Gods and were denying the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, thus they were told they would die at the hands of the "Uncircumcised" as a punishment for usrping God's place. Mormons do not deny God, we do not seek to take his place. Mormons are not Kings who have declared themselves Gods, we are just people, children of God as the Scriptures say and if later we become God, that is Gods affair and we cannot do it ourselves, not can we coerce him into it. We can obey and strive to be worthy for this the Goal of our existence as told to us by him.
1 Sam 2:2there is none besides you
Mormons have no God but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our creator, our redeemer, our Lord, Our God.
2 Sam 7:22:For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you
God is the only creator, there is none like him and for us there is no God but him.
Eph 2:4-10God {snip} made us alive, For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are indeed God's creation, we are also his children
Jesus Said So As for Being Saved by grace, I ask you, the Jews had all these laws, and Jesus came and fulfilled them. Jesus then gave us new laws. are we not to keep his commands now like the Jews of old were to keep his commands then? Your position that We are saved by grace in spite of all we do is in direct contradiction with the truth which is that we are saved by Grace after all we can do.
But in the end, we both agree it is grace that saves us. You might want to review
James 2:15-26
For faith without works is indeed dead. A man is justified by Faith wrought with Works, not works alone, not faith alone, but by works can your faith be made perfect.
Now, I have answered your questions, I am sleepy for this much review of what I consider basics has made me so, I will post this and wish you pleasnt dreams.
You supplied several scriptures that you then interpreted as meaning it was impossible, and a sin. I disagree with your interpretation, the rest of your reasoning being built on this faulty interpretation of the bible falls of it's own weight....I am not trying to argue with you, just tell you I disagree with your interpretation, and I really don't have to argue your interpretation, just tell you I disagree...From your perspective Everything you just said is true, from mine it is all 100% wrong It is pretty obvious from statements like this that there is really no reason to continue with you. There is no Godly reason. You do not want to discuss the context of scripture. Anyone can use the bible to support any thing they want using the bible out of context. You say you disagree and that I am wrong (because Smith says I am), yet you have not been willing to be Berean with sciptures given you. In the meantime, I pray that someday in this life that you will really undestand what scipture means when it says to call upon His Name. I am not the one that denies you the name "Christian". Actually, your own organization used to, (and they were right in that). I am not afraid of you nor what you teach. The peace of Christ Jesus that passes all understandind testifies to that.
There is an indescribable joy that comes from knowing the Lord. The word means that it is impossible to describe or utter words of this tremendous joy. Once that is in your heart and you know that you are right with God, the one and only true God who created all the heavens and earth, not some god that come from some planet named kolob or whatever, but the one True God, the Almighty who holds all things together, visible and invisible, knowing that you have been declared righteous in His sight because of what He did and nothing on our own, then there is no reason to start relying on myself to please Him.
In our hearts, we KNOW that we cannot please God, yet in our pride and in our sin, wanting to be like God, man suppresses that knowledge (Romans 1) and gathers about him teachers of man-made doctrine with God sounding terminology in order to soothe his itchy ears. Turn to the true God, for He has set eternity in your heart and He is not far away.
I have no interest in "Shooting you down" I would rather build you up and teach you truth, I would rather testify that Jesus Lives and that he has saved you if you will just accept his atonement and begin keeping his commandments! But you would rather argue points of Doctrine, sigh. You said: I really don't care. I am not out to "trap" anyone, but to expose what is not God's truth when it is proclaimed that it is God's Truth. Your posts here belie your words. However, you must understand that I believe I have all the truth you are trying to offer me, plus some added perspectives. what you offer me is the opportunity to forget additional truth and light. Sorry, not interested. You said: I am not ashamed of the gospel, that it is Jesus Christ, the Almighty God in the flesh, who was was the fulfillment, completion of the Law so that all those who call on His name, His nature, will be saved. Great, I call upon his name, I obey his commands, I am following his will to the best of my imperfect ability. I am saved. Yet, you deny me event the name Christian.
Some of what you have posted about Mormon beliefs is new to me. In the hopes of understanding these beliefs more fully, I have a couple questions for you:
Delphi: “We do not propose to make ourselves like creations most high, we propose to keep God’s commands and if we are worthy to be exalted to such a station we will be happy to accept it, but it will be God’s doing, not ours....Mormons have no God but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our creator, our redeemer, our Lord, Our God.”
It seems that you assent that there is only one true God - just as most all Christian churches proclaim. But I don’t understand what happens to glorified Mormons. Do they become independent Gods (of lesser stature) or do they just become part of the Godhead? If they do become part of the Godhead, how much independence do they maintain? If a Mormon becomes part of the Godhead, do they then know the “mind of God - the creator” or are they still lacking in some faculties?
Do the Mormons who become God(or Gods) then merit worship from Man? In other words, when you worship God, are you worshipping all glorified Mormons as well?
Delphi: “Mormons are not Kings who have declared themselves Gods, we are just people, children of God as the Scriptures say and if later we become God, that is Gods affair and we cannot do it ourselves, not can we coerce him into it. We can obey and strive to be worthy for this the Goal of our existence as told to us by him.”
If it is God’s decision to make Mormon’s part of the Godhead, is there an intermediate condition where you are dead but not part of the Godhead. In other words, can you be good enough not to be hellbound but still not meet the “Godhead standard”?
Is the standard for reaching “God status” well defined in Mormon teachings? Or is this status discerned by God only upon your physical death? Is your entire life judged by God for this purpose or just your faithful obediance after conversion - in other words, are some people with extremely heinous sins disqualified regardless of later decisions made in their lives? What about death-bed conversion - is this possible in the Mormon faith??
Thanks for your input and info....