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I understand your perspective. I've tried to stick to the point: secret rites prohibit discussion of comparative religious topics. If that's unavoidable in LDS then so be it.

I think we may well be misunderstanding each other. At least I feel misunderstood in some of my answers. And I think I may be misunderstanding you as well.

I read the manual and it was helpful, thank you. Can you help me out with this part of our discussion?

What exactly are we talking about that is a secret rite? You said baptism, Eucharist, etc are not secret, so what is it exactly we are talking about here?

Is the secret part in the Ordinances and Covenants? These seem to be spelled out in the manual - are they basically the same only with different presentation and wording?

Or, alternatively, is the secret part found here:

In a symbolic way, the teachings and rituals of the temple take us on an upward journey toward eternal life, ending with a symbolic entrance into the presence of God. The characters depicted, the physical setting, the clothing worn, the signs given, and all the events covered in the temple are symbolic. When they are understood, they will help each person recognize truth and grow spiritually.

You say:

all this is in the D&C and the book of Abraham, so go and read them if you want to know what we do in the temple.

... but preface it with:

We covenant with God not to reveal the sacred things he teaches us there outside the temple..

Which, I hope you can imagine confuses me quite a bit.

So, if you could clarify for me what exactly the nature of the secret rite is. By this I mean what's it called, is it like a church service for members only? Is it a regular rite? Who presides? Is it a group meeting. Is what must be kept secret comprised of special teachings by a church leader or a ritual that is repeated? Is this a one time initiation, learning or an ongoing thing.

I'm afraid I'm thoroughly confused what we're talking about and apologize for not clearing it up sooner.

I understand your perspective. I've tried to stick to the point: secret rites prohibit discussion of comparative religious topics. If that's unavoidable in LDS then so be it.

I have, I think figured our why, you think rites = Doctrine so if one is secret, the other is too, in this case at least that's just not so.

Can you help me out with this part of our discussion?

I'll try.

What exactly are we talking about that is a secret rite? You said baptism, Eucharist, etc are not secret, so what is it exactly we are talking about here?

Baptism for the Dead, The endowment and sealings for all time and eternity.

Is the secret part in the Ordinances and Covenants? These seem to be spelled out in the manual - are they basically the same only with different presentation and wording?

The Sacred part is in the Ordinance, and the things they teach (non-doctrinal things that are just rites) (does it really matter to you which side of the isle we walk down during our ceremonies, or if we high five or low five when we meet a "Brother"?)

Or, alternatively, is the secret part found here: {snip}

Nope, Mormons are pretty open about our views about the diefication of man, that's in the D&C, and the book of Abraham, like I said.

You say: all this is in the D&C and the book of Abraham, so go and read them if you want to know what we do in the temple.

... but preface it with:

We covenant with God not to reveal the sacred things he teaches us there outside the temple..

Which, I hope you can imagine confuses me quite a bit.

Why? There are things taught in the temple that are non doctrinal, that are not available outside, the way the doctrine is taught in the temple is not to spoken outside, however, all the doctrines are in the D&C and the book of Abraham, so if someone wants to discuss it, we can go there and talk about the doctrines. I personally went through the temple for the first time and went What's the big deal? I learned all this already just from the scriptures.

So pardon me, what's confusing?

So, if you could clarify for me what exactly the nature of the secret rite is.

So if I could just break my vows please? No, sorry, won't do that, or is that what you were asking?

By this I mean what's it called, is it like a church service for members only?

There is a personal part (I mean individual) called washing and anointing, then there is an Endowment which is an instructional part, with covenants with God to keep his commandments. There is also a Sealing to bind families together through the eternities

Is it a regular rite?

Define a regular rite.

Who presides?

A temple worker called from a local congregation, he is called "The Officiator"

Is it a group meeting.

A Baptisms, yes, in a line getting baptized for a list of names
B Washings and annointings, no individual
C Endowment yes group meeting
D Sealings Live yes family and friends can be invited if they have temple recommends For the dead usually just those participating

Is what must be kept secret comprised of special teachings by a church leader or a ritual that is repeated? Is this a one time initiation, learning or an ongoing thing.

You guys seem to have a problem with the word sacred, secret is not the right word and that may be where some of the misunderstanding is coming from, what goes on in the temple is sacred, not just secret.

It's the same teachings every time.

We are encouraged in the strongest terms to return to the temple on the behalf of the dead to repeat the ceremony, it helps us to refresh it, and the dead need to have it performed for them by a mortal.