The ABSOLUTE Primacy of Christ

Irish-Catholic and Dangerous ^ | April 12, 2007 | Danny Garland, Jr.

[fr maximilian mary]

Franciscan (Scotistic) Thesis: Absolute Primacy Of Christ -Jesus Christ was absolutely predestined for grace and glory in His Incarnation quite apart from any question of sin. The elect (men and angels) were chosen and predestined in Him by an eternal decree. And this before the universe had been created.

Supporters of this:

-St. Maximus the Confessor: “This [the Incarnation] is that great and hidden mystery. This is the blessed end for which all things were created. This is the divine purpose foreknown before the beginning of creation… Really, it was for the sake of Christ, that is the mystery of Christ, that all the ages and all the things of all the ages themselves received the beginning and end of existence in Christ.”

-St. Francis De Sales: The primary reason for the Incarnation was that God “might communicate Himself” outside Himself (ad extra). From all eternity He saw that the most excellent way to do this was in “uniting Himself to some created nature, in such sort that the creature might be engrafted and implanted in the divinity, and become one single Person with it.” Thus God willed the Incarnation. Through Christ and “for His sake” God willed to pour out His goodness on other creatures thus choosing to “create men and angels to accompany His Son, to participate in His grace and glory, to adore and praise Him forever.”

-St. Albert the Great: In his commentary on the Sentences he writes, “to the extent that I can offer my opinion, I believe that the Son of God would have become man even if there had been no sin… Nevertheless, on this subject I say nothing in a definitive manner; but I believe that what I said is more in harmony with the piety of faith.”

Bl. John Duns Scotus:

The absolute primacy of Christ begins with God’s plan. So we can say that it begins from above, and not from below (from man). It begins with God. Scotus seeks to see the created world form God’s point of view. And God, he would hold, does not subordinate His eternal decrees to man’s temporal situation. God rather in His goodness, freely wills to create the universe according to a fixed plan.

The key note to Scotus’ system is the word "predestination"

Note the distinction again from a Calvinist predestination: God has a fixed plan for creation, but man is still free. For Scotus, the origin of all creation rests on predestination. Scotus defines Predestination as "An act of divine will which destines (chooses or elects) an intellectual creature to grace and glory." Predestination is characterized by 2 activities:

1) eternal: the eternal act outside of time. This refers to the intention of God for all eternity. This specifically refers to the activity of "determining the end." Meaning determining the goal or purpose or final cause of all of God’s activity outside of Himself.

2) temporal: " The Execution of His foreseen plan in time." This means the gradual realization of His eternal plan in time.

-Therefore, we have a single plan of predestination with 2 activities that bring it about. Intention and execution. The intention which God freely chooses from eternity always precedes the execution of His intention in time. The example used by Scotists is that of a sculptor. First the artist sees in his mind a life-size wooden statue (say, of Sacred Heart of Jesus) and he wants to carve this wooden statue.

The first thing the sculptor does is have an intention to carve the statue. Now to execute that intention, he obtains a large chunk of wood. He brings it to a studio and begins to carve. What we can see in this process is that the intention is first and the execution is second, and in a certain sense we can say that the execution (the chunk of wood) is less perfect compared to what the final statue would be (the more perfect). But the sculptor throughout the process sees the Sacred Heart of Jesus in that wood. That intention is what moves the execution of the plan along. So in the sculptors activity of intention, the perfect is willed and is seen first. Whereas, in the activity of execution, he begins with the less perfect and gradually moves to the perfect.

Applying this to subject of primacy of Christ: God is the divine artist. The first thing he does is wills and predestines the Most sacred Heart of Jesus to the maximum grace and glory as possible. This maximum grace in glory is by virtue of the personal union that the human heart of Jesus will have with the eternal Word in the Incarnation. This happens through the hypostatic union. Now through the activity of the intention God wills the end of all creation; The goal and height of all creation: Jesus Christ.

To get to this goal of all creation, God sets his plan in motion (the execution), with the creation of the universe. God moves from the lesser perfect to the most perfect realization of his eternal decree. (Chunk of wood to the actual statue). That’s why he starts with creation. The most perfect of his eternal decree is the grace and glory of Jesus Christ. (Scotus says that Scripture supports this. Jesus is the high point of creation.) Thus the Sacred Heart of Jesus is the first created being willed by God and was done so for all eternity and the Sacred Heart is predestined to the height of Glory. The Sacred Heart is the goal of all creation. What God seeks to realize in the fullness of time (Gal 4:4). So this eternal intention of God and the temporal execution towards this end, is what is fixed by predestination. Secondly, all other rational creatures are predestined in, thru, and for Jesus Christ.

The predestination is the positive act of the divine will which destines a rational creature to grace and glory. This refers first to Jesus Christ in his humanity, and also to all the saints and angels.

For Scotus predestination is absolute, not relative, meaning that it is not relative to any created need or circumstance. Rather it is based on God’s own intrinsic goodness and moving creatures to himself for the optimum grace and glory.

Christ was willed (Incarnation) before the foundation of the world (cf. Eph. 1:4). Jesus is first of all willed for His own sake and not first for man’s sake. In fact, men and angels are created for Him and He for God (cf. I Cor. 3:23). Jesus could not be predestined to grace and glory on account of sin....even though he will conquer sin in his mercy. Thus the Incarnation is the supreme work of God ad extra (outside of Himself) and it is not occasioned by sin. This predestination of Christ, of men, and of angels is one simultaneous act. So God destines all of the elect to grace and glory in Jesus Christ.

In Scotus’s Ordinatio he says:

1) God predestines Christ (in His humanity), saints and angels to glory before any foreseen sin.

2) Predestination is absolute in the intention of God and not based on future needs or sins of creatures.

3) Thirdly that Christ’s absolute predestination could not be "occasioned by sin" or even for the sake of men and angels.

a) After willing the Trinity, the first thing that God wills is the humanity of Jesus.

b) You don’t predestine the height of created glory based on the fall of an inferior creature.

Consequently, this is the view I hold. It also has implications for the Blessed Virgin as well, which I will post on at a later time.

In the meantime, Tom over at Disputations has started a discussion on the subject... Make sure you check out the discussion in the combox. You will find that Fr. Maximilian Mary Dean, F.I. has joined the discussion. Note what he says, for he wrote the book on this subject......literally! It's called A Primer on the Absolute Primacy of Christ.

Be sure to check out Fr. Maximilian's vlog series on this subject at AirMaria.com.

by Danny Garland Jr. at Irish-Catholic and Dangerous

[fr maximilian mary]

Ave Maria!

Really, it's not a personal crusade. Popes and Saints alike (not to mention Cardinals and Theologians)have called her Mediatrix and Coredemptrix. Cardinal Toppo with 4 other Cardinals and 50 Bishops recently put the accent on the Virgin Mary as Spiritual Mother. Vox Populi Maria Mediatrici, in particular Dr. Mark Miravalle, explain the titles with an emphasis on her maternal role: Coredemptrix—the Mother suffering, viz. the fruitful birth pangs in bringing forth the Church with and under her Crucified Son; Mediatrix—the Mother nourishing her children; Advocate—the Mother pleading their cause. So Danny is summing it all up with the title "Mother of All Peoples". But quite aside from any private revelation, she has always been considered our spiritual Mother. At any rate, for more on this topic see the pings I posted above to the other thread.

God bless...

[OLD REGGIE]

May we quote you on that? Various RCs on the forum dispute this claim when Protestants make the same statement.

You could quote the Catechism Of The Catholic Church.

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

[fr maximilian mary]

Then let’s talk about the primacy of Christ and bow down and worship Him! This thread is not about “Mary worship”, but about Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. Amen.

God bless...

[pjr12345]

You could quote the Catechism Of The Catholic Church.

I think I've solved my dilemma

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848046/posts?page=522#522

Hows 'bout we call it the heathen catholic church?

[1000 silverlings]

We can see from recent research that Mary, by offering up Christ as “the sacrificial victim” has actually usurped the role of the Father in the Plan of Salvation. Where they go from there.. why to the moon I guess Alice

[1000 silverlings]

Since Mary is credited with 'giving' Christ for the sacrifice, doesn't this make her equal to the Father (Jn.3:16)?

My thoughts exactly. Not only is she the mother of God, she is God. They should just admit it

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks for that info from the RCC catechism. It's difficult to keep up with all the changing perspectives -- spoken, written, preached. It's never clear what Rome means at any given time.

Now we're told there's a significant difference in meaning between the words, doctrine and dogma. As was explained to me yesterday...

Posted by Danny Garland Jr. to Dr. Eckleburg
On Religion 06/13/2007 8:22:30 PM PDT · 61 of 84

"It seems many people are confusing the terms "doctrine" and "dogma." Our Lady's maternal mediation (Mother of All Peoples with its three aspects) is an official doctrine of the Church. It is not yet a dogma. It is valid to debate whether it should or should not be a dogma, but one cannot debate whether it is already a doctrine of the Catholic Church."

I looked up "dogma" in the dictionary and the first definition of dogma is..."doctrine!" (exclamation point mine)

Likewise, under the entry for doctrine, it says -- SYNONYM: dogma.

According to the dictionary it seems the words have the exact same meaning, dogma having a Greek etymology while doctrine is derived from Latin.

I think this comes under the heading of "conveniently fabricated loophole."

[1000 silverlings]

Mary "immolated" Christ? What in the world does that mean?

sacrificed Him

[1000 silverlings]

or “look over there!”, lol

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Immolate" means "to sacrifice; to kill as a sacrifice."

So now we have the RCC asserting Mary sacrificed Jesus rather than God Almighty sacrificed Jesus.

I do not believe these words are chosen carelessly by the RCC. They know exactly what they're teaching. And it is blasphemy.

[1000 silverlings]

Yes, Mary has the power, Jesus is “the sacrificial victim”, ie powerless

[1000 silverlings]

And it looks like “the church” in uniting with Mary, has the power

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Not only is she the mother of God, she is God. They should just admit it

lol.

If "doctrine" and "dogma" can mean different things in the RCC, then so can the words, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" (Deut. 5:9).

It's just a matter of time and semantics.

[1000 silverlings]

The people “join with Mary”, so they’re all God now and every mass they take the Lord and offer Him up. It’s black arts, baby

[Danny Garland Jr.]

It is Christ who does the offering. Christ is both priest and victim. No other priest could offer such an offering, save the perfect Great High Priest that is Christ (cf. the Epistle to the Hebrews). Mary takes part in the offering by consenting to the immolation of her Son. She does not become God nor does she take God’s place. She is allowed to participate in this sacrifice by and through the power of Christ.

Christ is the Great High Priest who was predestined before all the world regardless of sin, who offers up the everlasting sacrifice of His Body and Blood at each Mass. We don’t offer Christ up at Mass, Christ offers Himself up continuously at the Mass through the priests who represent Him and who are empowered by Him.

I agree with Fr. Maximilian that we should return to the topic of this post, namely the eternal predestination of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, rather than bashing false assumptions of what the Catholic Church believes.

God Bless.

[pjr12345]

In any case, that dog(ma) don’t hunt.

[pjr12345]

Is your claim based on doctrine, dogma, or tradition? It sure isn’t based on Scripture.

[fortheDeclaration]

Thanks for that info from the RCC catechism. It's difficult to keep up with all the changing perspectives -- spoken, written, preached. It's never clear what Rome means at any given time.

Jesuit double-speak

[1000 silverlings]

Christ is first and foremost, not a victim. That alone is unbiblical. Christ does not "do the offering," as that too flies in the face of scripture and is unbiblical, as Hebrews states, He made one offering, one time, one time only, for that was all that was needed. To assert that He must be sacrificed forever is unscriptual as well as theologically un-Christian

Mary can consent to nothing, that too is unbiblical and usurps God the Father's role in the Plan of Salvation, contradicts Jesus, and is a manmade concept

All these posts have relevance to all that is being discussed, and it is biblical to let the light shine in on dark matters.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

so they're all God now and every mass they take the Lord and offer Him up.

Exactly!

It comes down to the difference between imputed righteousness (Christ's righteous saves us) and infused righteousness (Christ's righteousness becomes us.)

The former is Scriptural; the latter is occultic. We do not become God. Till our death we remain human beings still not perfect, still susceptible to our sin nature.

However, as believing Christians redeemed by His blood, we are acquitted of those sins and judged blameless bfore God by His work on the cross.

"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:4-8

The following essay could be posted as a thread...

JUSTIFICATION
the Article by which the Church Stands or Falls.