Thank God For the Magisterium

NCR ^ | June 10, 2007 | Mark Shea

[NYer]

Many modern people have the notion that the principal mission of the Catholic Church is to impose belief on unbelievers. The reality is that most of its time is spent trying to restrain belief in everything from spoon-bending to the aliens who allegedly speak to us through a cat in Poughkeepsie.

The riptides and cross-currents of religious enthusiasm in American culture are kaleidoscopic and dizzying. Cradle Catholics can be forgiven for just ignoring the whole thing and many of them do. But it’s still worth taking into account because some religious trends can have decided real-world effects.

Some of the effects of unrestrained belief can be amusing.

For instance, after five centuries of being told by Protestant polemicists that we “Romanists” do not trust the saving grace of Jesus Christ and ignorantly seek salvation by the works of the law, it is a weird thing for a Catholic to see the spectacle of kooky apocalyptic Protestants eagerly excited about the birth of red heifers because this will (they hope) be the prelude to rebuilding the Temple of Solomon and the re-institution of the Mosaic sacrificial system. Just how that Temple will be rebuilt when the Dome of the Rock is situated on the site of the Temple is not quite as clearly worked out.

Which brings me to something just as kooky, but less amusing.

Recently, James Dobson, a leading Evangelical and a usually sensible man, hosted on his show one Joel Rosenberg, author of something called Epicenter: Why Current Rumblings in the Middle East Will Change Your Future. Rosenberg claims to know “what the Bible says” about what is happening in the Mideast and is not shy about making “predictions regarding the fate of the Middle East regarding issues such as Iran’s nuclear threats against Israel, the arms race and ultimately ... Armageddon.” Here’s a snippet:

Dobson: “Well, Joel, let’s explain to everybody how Ezekiel 38 turns out, because Israel is about to be attacked, and a huge number of troops from Russia and Iran are coming toward Israel to destroy it, and what happens?”

Rosenberg: “Well, God is going to move. You won’t find in the Scriptures that the United States is coming to rescue Israel or the European Union, but God says he is going to supernaturally intervene — we’re talking about fire from heaven, a massive earthquake, diseases spreading through the enemy forces. It is going to be such a clear judgment against the enemies of Israel that Ezekiel 39 says that it will take seven months to bury all the bodies of the slain enemies of Israel. “

Such standard-issue Evangelical prophetic cocksureness is an excellent example of why a magisterium is so useful and necessary.

Not only does the magisterium help us know what is essential to the faith, it also helps us remain free of what is unessential. For the various species of Protestantism, in addition to denying real biblical truths such as the Real Presence or infant baptism, also have a tendency to invent “biblical truths” that do not exist and impose them by means of a sort of cultural pressure via charismatic preachers with pet theories who, in their own sphere, are granted an infallibility the Pope could never dream of.

Now, a Catholic is quite free to have a kooky private reading of Ezekiel 38-39 as a prophecy of the “coming resurgent Soviet Union” and its alliance with Muslims, communist Chinese or whoever, all in a vast Cecil B. DeMille battle against Israel. The Church has all sorts of room for eccentrics, and everybody needs a hobby.

But a Catholic is not free to go around telling everybody that “this is the clear teaching of the Bible” and demand it be believed. For the fact is, this kooky theory is emphatically not the clear teaching of the Bible, nor does it have any sanction whatsoever from the Church, the tradition, the Fathers, the councils or the popes. It is a pure novelty we can and should ignore.

What we should not ignore is Rosenberg’s claim that, “Given the events going on in our world today, people at the Pentagon, people at the CIA, people at the White House are asking to sit down and talk about these issues, to understand the Biblical perspective, because it is uncanny what is happening out there and it deserves some study.”

I suspect that Rosenberg is exaggerating his clout with the big cheeses in DC. I doubt that the Pentagon’s intel meetings are dominated by exegeses of Ezekiel 38.

But I do think it matters if a significant portion of the American polity drinks in such bizarre theories as if they were God’s revealed Truth.

Ideas have consequences, especially crazy ones. Most crazy ideas do no harm.

Crazy ideas about the Middle East, backed by the force of arms, stand a better than average chance of killing millions.

[DarthVader]

“Now, a Catholic is quite free to have a kooky private reading of Ezekiel 38-39 as a prophecy of the “coming resurgent Soviet Union” and its alliance with Muslims, communist Chinese or whoever, all in a vast Cecil B. DeMille battle against Israel. The Church has all sorts of room for eccentrics, and everybody needs a hobby.

But a Catholic is not free to go around telling everybody that “this is the clear teaching of the Bible” and demand it be believed. For the fact is, this kooky theory is emphatically not the clear teaching of the Bible, nor does it have any sanction whatsoever from the Church, the tradition, the Fathers, the councils or the popes. It is a pure novelty we can and should ignore.”

The way the current Russian govt is behaving and the alliances they are forming are rapidly pushing glasnost back into a Cold War mentality. Putin has begun to viciously and murderously suppress dissidents in the way of the old Soviet Union. The hammer and sickle is back on their flag. That is not a tone that is optimistic for peace. Mr. Shea is presumptuous in his line of thought here. He must think that the first pope Peter was a raving lunatic. As it says in his own Epistle. I Peter 4:

7 The end of all things is at hand, therefore be serious and discipline yourselves for the sake of your prayers. 8Above all, maintain constant love for one another, for love covers a multitude of sins. 9Be hospitable to one another without complaining. 10Like good stewards of the manifold grace of God, serve one another with whatever gift each of you has received. 11Whoever speaks must do so as one speaking the very words of God; whoever serves must do so with the strength that God supplies, so that God may be glorified in all things through Jesus Christ. To him belong the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

History has a powerful dynamic,we have had only periods of stability marred with lots on conflict and it isn't getting any better. The Bible has accurately prophesied Jesus first coming accurate to the detail and the rest is yet to come.

[Iscool]

This would most likely included babies

'Most likely' doesn't get it for biblical proof and biblical truth...Most assuredly, there were no babies in the household...

There is no baptism in the bible without the baptized first turning toward God...That requires a conscious effort of the part of the baptizee...

There's not a Catholic baby that ever lived that turned to God before being baptized...

Again, it not in the bible, it's not biblical...

[x_plus_one]

the aliens who allegedly speak to us through a cat in Poughkeepsie.

The ghost of George McGovern is using the cat - the aliens speak for themselves...

[Iscool]

Are Calvinists born ignorant, or do they have to WORK AT IT???

Couldn't say...I thought Calvinists were predestinated Catholics...???

[tiki]

Golly gee, I see from a poster later in the thread that there were most assuredly no infants. They don't believe in infant baptism so there were no infants in those families, they must have all been over 12 I guess.

[P-Marlowe]

No, that is not the case. I guess it’s just an unoriginality of argument.

In light of the article at the top of the thread, show me where you would disagree with the following statement:

"When the Magisterium speaks, the thinking has been done. When the Magisterium proposes a plan--it is God's Plan. When the Magisterium points the way, there is no other which is safe. When the Magisterium gives directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

[Gamecock]

Thank God For the Magisterium

Just ignore that it changes constantly.

[Quix]

Certainly.

We’d better be OK else I bloody your nose. [joke].

I’m clueless about your . . .

What’s an IC ubergruppe?

Blessed provision, protection, anointing in your travels and doings.

[Quix]

Actually, I meant SOME RC’s.

I’m sure that from their perspective, they are “merely” standing up for their faith.

I think the most troublesome stuff comes from psychodynamics instead of theology but that’s a different issue. I think that Heaven will show that virtually ALL theological splits and troubles began as a WHOLESALE LACK OF DADDIES NOT doing their loving bonding with children ages 0-8. But I’m biased about that, for sure.

And I certainly have no trouble with doing that—even forcefully.

It’s the assaultive high and mighty TONE that’s too easily and often used, by SOME, that’s troublesome.

I could even handle some “ALWAYS” “NEVER” wording for SOME theological core issues from their perspective IF they weren’t so routinely, sanctimoniously assaultive so across the board to “all” Proties etc.

[Jaded]

RC’S ARE MORE FORCEFUL, brittle, demanding, startlingly ALL OR NOTHING descriptive about those who don’t buy into their construction on reality still . . . somewhat routinely. The double standard gets very old and wearying.

That's the funniest thing I've read in days. Thanks for the laugh.

[trisham]

Now, a Catholic is quite free to have a kooky private reading of Ezekiel 38-39 as a prophecy of the “coming resurgent Soviet Union” and its alliance with Muslims, communist Chinese or whoever, all in a vast Cecil B. DeMille battle against Israel. The Church has all sorts of room for eccentrics, and everybody needs a hobby.

*************

LOL!!

[armydoc]

But a Catholic is not free to go around telling everybody that “this is the clear teaching of the Bible” and demand it be believed.

Strawman! Where in the article is Dobson, Rosenberg, or any other Prot demanding their views on Biblical prophecy be believed?

[trisham]

I don't understand why they want to constantly spew on us unless they are trying to strengthen our faith through the Catholic Church. Whenever they make a new and/or more hysterical claim it sends me back to the Bible and the Cathechism. the internet and the very informed writings of the many intellectual Catholics on FR. I get my faith reaffirmed everyday by the writings and postings of Catholics.

*************

I'm with you here. It is my experience that the "arguments" offered by many Protestants accomplish the very opposite of what is intended.

[trisham]

Hi, Quix! I’m sorry to say that I haven’t seen you in a while, friend.

[Greg F]

Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.

I love it. Ever think about the fact that every Buddhist baby, born of desire, is an affront to Buddhist "theology" or philosophy, since desire was not very obviously not eliminated . . .

[trisham]

I suppose that’s true. :)

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind words and concern.

Been going to pot . . . pottery that is. Working at throwing some dinner sets to sell. Part time prof at the college is meager given their tenacious pattern of 18 part time psych profs and limiting us so they don’t have to pay benefits.

Also, FR seems to have . . . become mellowed out, bummed out, sparse in drama or energetically conflicted issues, . . . something recently.

Also, I’ve been holding fort a little bit on AboveTopSecret.com about The Faith. It’s a fertile ground for sowing given so many searching souls of a confused, agnostic sort. And the UFO etc. stuff there offers a rich set of opportunities to speak spiritual truth.

But, I have missed the vigorous give and take hereon. Been sad about it’s absence. Been concerned for FR and for our country.

Thanks tons for saying something. Miss seeing you, as much, too.

God’s best to you and yours.

You are aware of the JimRob prayer thread, right? I forget.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847345/posts?page=362#362

[trisham]

I had no idea you were an artist. I love pottery.

Thanks so much for the JR prayer link!

I hope you'll be able to find some time to spend with us here again soon.

You are missed.

[tiki]

He's often unintentially funny. I've seen the same mindset with other groups of people, because they paid their dues, or have victim status, or think that everyone who doesn't think their way is stupid. It allows them to be rude while denying it or truly not even seeing it.

I'm certainly not saying that I've never been rude but I recognize it even if sometimes it is after the fact. I have been intentionally rude twice in the last week, it doesn't make me right and I feel bad for it. I also realize that I may be biased but I have been in these religion forums for over 7 yrs. We have explained our belief thousands of times and they still insist that that is not what we believe and even if it isn't we're still wrong and they are right.

I really don't know what they think that they are accomplishing, I haven't heard of one Catholic who became Protestant because of their words. Yes, there are a lot of ex-Catholics who never understood the true teachings of the Church and have now "found" Jesus. They refuse to recognize that He was there all along but they didn't acknowledge Him and then they want to blame someone. I would think that they'd be gloriously happy that they had found their way and their posts would show it.

I marvel at the faith in action of the Catholics I read on FR. I'm amazed they haven't shaken the dust off their feet and hit the road but there are those out there who see the same thing and it changes them.

I do believe that the Holy Spirit has worked through this forum as there have been many lapsed Catholics who have embraced their Catholic faith again, and even some converts.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for the correction and for sharing your testimony!

As I testified at post 22, I believe God. I am a Christian, plain and simple. I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men across the board.

Those who are in a position of spiritual responsibility - whether prophets, apostles, evangelists, religious leaders, teachers or councils - all of them carry a double burden:

So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. - Eze 33:7-9

And not just them, but you and I and every other Christian have a duty to the Word of God (albeit to a lesser extent than they): keeping the lamp in plain view, loving one another, forgiving, being merciful, seeking His will, being and doing and speaking as He leads us to proclaim the Gospel.

So when the Great White Throne judgment comes, I will be held to account not only for myself but for everyone I have “touched” in this life. But my prayer is that, because I have eschewed all the doctrines and traditions of men across the board, then no one else will be held to account for me. And conversely, whenever I testify to another, I encourage them to look to God, not me.

To God be the glory, God alone.