Posted on 06/10/2007 3:02:20 PM PDT by NYer
Many modern people have the notion that the principal mission of the Catholic Church is to impose belief on unbelievers. The reality is that most of its time is spent trying to restrain belief in everything from spoon-bending to the aliens who allegedly speak to us through a cat in Poughkeepsie.
The riptides and cross-currents of religious enthusiasm in American culture are kaleidoscopic and dizzying. Cradle Catholics can be forgiven for just ignoring the whole thing and many of them do. But it’s still worth taking into account because some religious trends can have decided real-world effects.
Some of the effects of unrestrained belief can be amusing.
For instance, after five centuries of being told by Protestant polemicists that we “Romanists” do not trust the saving grace of Jesus Christ and ignorantly seek salvation by the works of the law, it is a weird thing for a Catholic to see the spectacle of kooky apocalyptic Protestants eagerly excited about the birth of red heifers because this will (they hope) be the prelude to rebuilding the Temple of Solomon and the re-institution of the Mosaic sacrificial system. Just how that Temple will be rebuilt when the Dome of the Rock is situated on the site of the Temple is not quite as clearly worked out.
Which brings me to something just as kooky, but less amusing.
Recently, James Dobson, a leading Evangelical and a usually sensible man, hosted on his show one Joel Rosenberg, author of something called Epicenter: Why Current Rumblings in the Middle East Will Change Your Future. Rosenberg claims to know “what the Bible says” about what is happening in the Mideast and is not shy about making “predictions regarding the fate of the Middle East regarding issues such as Iran’s nuclear threats against Israel, the arms race and ultimately ... Armageddon.” Here’s a snippet:
Dobson: “Well, Joel, let’s explain to everybody how Ezekiel 38 turns out, because Israel is about to be attacked, and a huge number of troops from Russia and Iran are coming toward Israel to destroy it, and what happens?”
Rosenberg: “Well, God is going to move. You won’t find in the Scriptures that the United States is coming to rescue Israel or the European Union, but God says he is going to supernaturally intervene — we’re talking about fire from heaven, a massive earthquake, diseases spreading through the enemy forces. It is going to be such a clear judgment against the enemies of Israel that Ezekiel 39 says that it will take seven months to bury all the bodies of the slain enemies of Israel. “
Such standard-issue Evangelical prophetic cocksureness is an excellent example of why a magisterium is so useful and necessary.
Not only does the magisterium help us know what is essential to the faith, it also helps us remain free of what is unessential. For the various species of Protestantism, in addition to denying real biblical truths such as the Real Presence or infant baptism, also have a tendency to invent “biblical truths” that do not exist and impose them by means of a sort of cultural pressure via charismatic preachers with pet theories who, in their own sphere, are granted an infallibility the Pope could never dream of.
Now, a Catholic is quite free to have a kooky private reading of Ezekiel 38-39 as a prophecy of the “coming resurgent Soviet Union” and its alliance with Muslims, communist Chinese or whoever, all in a vast Cecil B. DeMille battle against Israel. The Church has all sorts of room for eccentrics, and everybody needs a hobby.
But a Catholic is not free to go around telling everybody that “this is the clear teaching of the Bible” and demand it be believed. For the fact is, this kooky theory is emphatically not the clear teaching of the Bible, nor does it have any sanction whatsoever from the Church, the tradition, the Fathers, the councils or the popes. It is a pure novelty we can and should ignore.
What we should not ignore is Rosenberg’s claim that, “Given the events going on in our world today, people at the Pentagon, people at the CIA, people at the White House are asking to sit down and talk about these issues, to understand the Biblical perspective, because it is uncanny what is happening out there and it deserves some study.”
I suspect that Rosenberg is exaggerating his clout with the big cheeses in DC. I doubt that the Pentagon’s intel meetings are dominated by exegeses of Ezekiel 38.
But I do think it matters if a significant portion of the American polity drinks in such bizarre theories as if they were God’s revealed Truth.
Ideas have consequences, especially crazy ones. Most crazy ideas do no harm.
Crazy ideas about the Middle East, backed by the force of arms, stand a better than average chance of killing millions.
"It is no use walking anywhere to preach unless our walking is our preaching."
Or to put it more succinctly:
"Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."
However, there's no Scriptural support for either interpretation.
If the magisterium is true, then why wouldn't the Holy Spirit be leading men to it since the Holy Spirit leads all men to the light of Christ and the truth of the Gospel?
Your sentence could be read either way. Regardless, both readings are incorrect. No straw anywhere in sight.
Nope.
If you're looking for the straw, you won't find it in my posts. It's in the posts where a misrepresentation of Catholicism is rejected as false.
**************
No? No one has mentioned any Scriptural support for the Magisterium on this thread?
One of the strengths of the Catholic Church is that we do not rely on ourselves alone, or on our own individual interpretation of Scripture.
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." -- Isaiah 55:11
The point is so much of the magisterium's teachings are explicitly contrary to Scripture, explicitly against the word of God, explicitly denied in Scripture that to believe the magistgerium over the word of God is misguided at best, damnable at worst.
"And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you." -- Leviticus 26:30
They are explicitly contrary to your own personal interpretation of scripture.
...explicitly denied in Scripture that to believe the magistgerium over the word of God is misguided at best, damnable at worst.
And to claim that one must choose between the Magisterium and the word of God is a grandiose false dichotomy of YOUR creation.
We’ve found that to be true. As I said earlier, we built a paintball field in the woods behind the church.
The Holy Spirit loves paintball, as it turns out!
Leviticus
Chapter 26
1
"Do not make false gods for yourselves. You shall not erect an idol or a sacred pillar for yourselves, nor shall you set up a stone figure for worship in your land; for I, the LORD, am your God.
2
Keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary. I am the LORD.
Our Lord is referring to false gods.
The Holy Spirit can lead men to Christ ...but never EVER EVER the Magisterium. NEVER!"
That sentence can mean...
1) The HS can lead men to Christ but the magisterium can't lead men to Christ. (magisterium here as active noun)
Or
2) The HS can lead men to Christ but not to the magisterium. (magisterium here as objective noun)
As you noted, words and their meanings matter. And words of Scripture matter the most.
By hacking out the center of the sentence, you created the ambiguity.
That’s ridiculous. Study some grammar texts along with the Bible.
I study the bible all the time (the entire bible), and my understanding of grammar obviously exceeds yours.
Yes, I know. Did you read post #278?
Bowing to Mary, praying to Mary, awarding Mary the name of co-redemtrix, blasphemously labeling Mary without sin, the false concept of the Assumption of Mary, all speak to an idolatry that is forbidden in every book of the Bible.
As Leviticus continues...
"And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you." -- Lev. 26:30
Those things on this list that Catholics ACTUALLY do or believe are only forbidden by your own personal interpretation of scripture.
Here. All nice and tidy and unambiguous...
Of course your sentence can be read both ways.
The Holy Spirit can lead men to Christ through the Declaration of Independence or a trout stream or Maya Angelou or a chiapet or a Slim Jim . . . but never EVER EVER the Magisterium. NEVER!
That sentence can mean...
1) The HS can lead men to Christ but the magisterium can't lead men to Christ. (magisterium here as active noun)
Or
2) The HS can lead men to Christ but not to the magisterium. (magisterium here as objective noun)
As you noted, words and their meanings matter. And words of Scripture matter the most.
And the penalty, as we've read, is not light.
Nope, it cannot.
According to your own personal interpretation of scripture.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.