A Hell to Shun

Bible.org ^ | 2007 | Bob Deffinbaugh

[HarleyD]

Jonathan Edwards explained it this way, "The glory of God is the greatest good; it is that which is the chief end of creation; it is of greater importance than anything else. But this is one way wherein God will glorify Himself, as in the eternal destruction of ungodly men He will glorify His justice. Therein He will appear as a just governor of the world. The vindictive justice of God will appear strict, exact, awful, and terrible, and therefor glorious." Every sin exalts the sinner over God. For God to look past or leave a sin unpunished would to be for Him to say He does not mind that His glory is second place and that a idol is exalted over Him. God's justice and holiness cannot allow this. God will vindicate His name and display the glory of His wrath and justice in hell.

[Between the Lines]

Book marked for a long read later.

[stuartcr]

“After all, such a fact would have dramatic implications!”

There are no facts that show hell does exist...just beliefs.

[HarleyD]

Yes, I would have to agree with you there are no facts to support the existence of hell. In fact, it’s not even a popular thing to talk about any longer. But it’s something I would try to make sure didn’t exist.

[stuartcr]

How would you do that?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

bookmark

[onedoug]

“If I knew God I’d be Him.”

[HarleyD]

How would you do that?

I would read the scriptures with an attitude of wanting to understand and praying with an attitude of wanting to be shown.

[joebuck]

"I would read the scriptures with an attitude of wanting to understand and praying with an attitude of wanting to be shown."

Yep, and it works best if you do that praying right before you start the reading.

[stuartcr]

How would that help make sure hell did not exist?

[HarleyD]

It’s through God and the faith that He instills in us that He reveals these truth to us. Can I point hell out? Not any more than I can see radiation. But I know radiation exists because of study. I can tell you the principle of radiation. I might see and point out some indications of radiation. I can even caution you against going into a room full of radiation. But you could ask me the same question, “How would my yakking about radiation help you to make sure that radiation really existed?” and off you would go into a room fill with it.

I’ll never convince you in the existence of hell with logic or reason. This type of wisdom is silliness. You will need to ask God if it is so and to lay it upon your heart. I am confident He will do so. If hell really exists, don't you think it's folly not explore all avenues to find out for sure?

[stuartcr]

I believe that radiation and it’s effects can be measured and viewed repeatedly, by different people, with the same results.

If there is no logic or reason available, then what makes anyones’s belief, any more or less valid than anothers? I believe God speaks to each individual as He sees fit.

[HarleyD]

I believe that radiation and it’s effects can be measured and viewed repeatedly, by different people, with the same results.

Not necessarily. You have people who 1) believe in radiation and its effect, 2) understand about radiation but don't care, 3) understand and wish to use it for their own devices, and 4) don't believe in it. Even our federal government will deny claims to cancer-ridden people who have been exposed to radiation leaks simply on the grounds that there is no direct evidence that radiation caused their illness. If radiation's effects were so obvious, there shouldn't be any disagreements.

If there is no logic or reason available, then what makes anyones’s belief, any more or less valid than anothers?

Who's argument is more logical or reasonable; the person who has been exposed to radiation and is dying from cancer or the lawyers with their statistical data fighting claims? Would you use that same argument with someone dying of cancer; that the lawyers arguments are just as valid as the cancer patient? Is it really true?

There is logic and reason available. Even the cancer patient with 20 malignant tumors on his kidneys knows the source even if he can't prove it. It just a matter of what he knows to be true based upon what has been revealed to him.

I believe God speaks to each individual as He sees fit.

Perhaps He's speaking to you now.

[stuartcr]

You said you would never convince me of the existence existence of hell with logic or reason. We’re not really talking about cancer or lawyers.

Yes, I believe God is talking to all of us, all the time...that is why we do what we do...that is how He created us.

[HarleyD]

Yes, I believe God is talking to all of us, all the time...that is why we do what we do...that is how He created us.

And what do you base that on?

[stuartcr]

It’s just the way I believe, I guess it could be called instinct and a sense of self-evidence. I believe that’s the way God made me.

[HarleyD]

Yes, I agree with you. I believe, and the scripture tells us, that God puts into every one of us the knowledge of Him. There is an instinct in us to long for God. The problem is, by nature, we rebel against this instinct, not wishing to explore and come to the truth.

If God is talking to us all the time, as you suggest and I agree with, than surely God is telling us what is right and where we have fallen short of what he wanted us to do. How do we correct those areas where we have fallen short of God’s standards and what happens to those people who refuse to comply with what God is telling them?

[stuartcr]

I disagree, in that I do not believe we really rebel against God. I think we all do as He has planned for us, it just appears that we rebel. That is why we have different religions.

[DouglasKC]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Perish = apollumi

apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

[DouglasKC]

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is a gift given by God. We don't already HAVE eternal life.