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To: vladimir998; Dr. Eckleburg
Did you read the whole passage:

Yes I read the whole passage. In fact I posted the whole passage. On the one hand New Advent makes the claim the sacraments aren't necessary for salvation. Then it states they are necessary for men to make use of them.

It sounds to me like you're saying the sacraments are not necessary for salvation. Is this correct? If the sacraments are not necessary for salvation, what is? Are you saying you're saved through faith?

414 posted on 06/02/2007 10:07:10 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

You wrote:

“It sounds to me like you’re saying the sacraments are not necessary for salvation. Is this correct? If the sacraments are not necessary for salvation, what is? Are you saying you’re saved through faith?”

I can’t believe I have to explain this to someone who claims to know the Catholic faith well enough to have a right to attack it. We are saved by grace alone. We receive that grace through faith and works we cooperate with. Those works are begun in us through Jesus Christ’s grace. Thus, no work of our own (a work outside grace, a work of our own creation, etc) does anything for us. God uses sacraments to give us grace. Yes, the sacraments are necessary. They are necessary in two ways: 1) we are human and require basic elementary interaction with materials of this world and gestures with each other. 2) they are the way God set down to give us grace. They are not the only way, however. In some cases, a man can die before water baptism. He was filled with faith and longed to be recieved into the Church. Christians always believed he was baptised through desire. Thus, for most, sacraments are necessary, but in some situations, they are not. Never, however, should they be ignored, avoided, deliberately attacked out of ignorance, derided, etc. They are from God.

These are not difficult concepts. If you have difficulty understanding these very simple concepts I suggest you go to www.catholic.com for help.


441 posted on 06/02/2007 11:40:42 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: HarleyD
It sounds to me like you're saying the sacraments are not necessary for salvation.

God offers gifts to us, why turn away from these gifts? God offers himself in the form of bread and wine - that's a pretty big gift - why not avail ourselves of it? God offers us many gifts. To some he offers a grace to pray: prayer requires a special gift from God. To others he may offer the grace to live as a missionary in some far-off place. To some he may even offer the grace to bear martyrdom. We often refuse God's gifts, but this is not wise. Can we refuse such gifts and still be saved? I don't know, but the gifts are there, God offers them, why turn our backs to them?

You may not think that all these things are gifts from God, though a Catholic would think so. Fair enough, can I understand that. But I am sure you would agree that it is unwise to turn one's back on the things that God offers us. In this at least we can agree.

521 posted on 06/03/2007 2:46:07 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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