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The Reality of Romanism
The Riddleblog ^ | May 10, 2007 | Kim Riddlebarger

Posted on 05/17/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock

Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).

But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).

All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .

"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.

Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'

Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'

Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"

So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.

By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.

Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; catholic; catholiclist; kimriddlebarger; papists; popish; rcc; riddlebarger; romancatholic; romanish; romanism; saywhat; sneering
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
...Christ's resurrection is the only miracle men need since Calvary.

Is it not enough for you?


I guess not, since it wasn't enough for St. Luke, who threw all those post-Calvary miracles into the Acts of the Apostles. Not to mention, oh, the Resurrection and the Ascension. Maybe we should cut that book out of the Protestant Bible too...

It's not that miracles are "needed," it's whether or not God still performs them, which he did in apostolic times, according to the Bible.

You've obviously missed all the arguments on the dispensational threads (they can get really rancorous between historic Protestants and the newly-arrived dispys) and all the two-year-long conversations with the Orthodox on the Nativity thread

Maybe Kim Riddlebarger will write her next article on the idolatry of "Constantinoplism."
201 posted on 05/17/2007 5:11:25 PM PDT by marsh_of_mists
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To: RobbyS
The power of suggestion? What the heck is that?

Your mind telling you something when the Bible tells you it isn't true.

Where your mind gets it is another matter entirely.

Those minds that have been quickened by the Holy Spirit to rightly discern the word of God need have no fear.

202 posted on 05/17/2007 5:12:36 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
We have the photographs right here. Are you denying you're the man in the monocle and pork pie hat?

Yes, I deny it utterly. It's true that I do wear a monocle, but I would never be caught dead wearing a pork pie hat - the brim's too narrow, and it clashes with my cane. Give me a good fedora any day. That, or a propeller beanie.

203 posted on 05/17/2007 5:14:24 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
It's fo real yo.

Here's a sample. See if it doesn't resonate with your innermost parts.

THE FIRST BOOK OF LABAN
WRITTEN BY LABAN THE YOUNGER

HIS LIFE IN JERUSALEM

Laban the younger writes of his youth, his friendship with Nephi, son of Lehi, his loving relationship with his father, Laban. Lehi's family turns against Laban and Laban the younger. Lehi covets Laban's brass plates, orders his sons to murder Laban and steal the brass plates. Nephi is convicted. Laban the Younger and a Jerusalem detective pursues Nephi to bring him to justice, bring several Asian whores on the journey.

CHAPTER 1
Laban the younger begins writing upon gold plates in a secret language called reformed Asian. Nephi and Laban the Younger are childhood friends. Laban the younger plays at Nephi’s house. Lehi goes crazy, begins preaching in the streets. The people make fun of him, children mock him and conspire against him. Laban the younger defeats the wicked children with his sling, and saves Lehi. [About 600 B.C.]

1. And it came to pass that I, Laban the Younger, was named after the manner of my father, who was named Laban. And I shall commence writing an account of my life upon these plates, yea, even plates of gold. And the record I shall make shall be a true record. And I maketh my record in the language of my companions, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Asians. And I shall call this language reformed Asian.

2. And it came to pass that my father, being a good man, had in his possession certain brass plates, like unto these gold plates upon which this record is written, except it be that my father’s record was on brass, not gold. And these brass plates did have written upon them the record of the Jews, even like unto a Bible.

3. And it came to pass that my best friend was named Nephi. And much happiness and joy did exist in Nephi’s home during my younger years, for I visited Nephi much and we experienced much light mindedness and loud laughter playing games in his home. And Nephi had amongst him many brothers, yea even brothers named Laman, Lemuel, and Sam.

4. And the father of Nephi was named Lehi and his mother was named Sariah, and Nephi doth think his parents to be goodly. Now Lehi, being a visionary man, experienced amongst himself many strange and amusing dreams and nightmares. Wherefore, he felt it must needs be that he should share his dreams and nightmares with the neighborhood as if they be real, and he doth pretend his dreams to be messages from god.

5. Now it came to pass that when Lehi spake his dreams and nightmares to his neighbors, his home was no longer a happy home, for Lehi angered his neighbors and he also did cause his children to become exceedingly frightened of him, save it be for Nephi and Sam who still thinkest their dad to be goodly.

6. And it came to pass that one day Lehi spake unto me, saying: Laban, ye must repent or ye shall be utterly destroyed, for it must needs be that God shall destroy Jerusalem and all who inhabit it who repent not.

7. And this did cause me much confusion, for I think I doth do nothing bad. And I spake unto Lehi that I did nothing wrong insomuch as he should be concerned, and wherefore had nothing to repent of.

8. But Lehi spake unto me saying he can see into my heart and knowest that I lie and commit many transgressions, and God shall surely strike me down unless I repent. And Lehi spake unto me that I shall be forgiven of mine iniquities only if I deliver unto him my father’s brass plates, but if I deliver not my father’s brass plates to Lehi, wo be unto me, for I shall be utterly destroyed by the lord. And when I did hear the words of Lehi's mouth, and beheld he had a crazy look in his eye, yea, I became exceedingly scared. Wherefore, I did turn away from Lehi and run home with exceeding haste.

9. And I, Laban the younger, spake unto my father the things which Lehi sayest unto me. And these things did cause exceeding anger unto my father. And he gave unto me a commandment telling me to stay away from Lehi’s home.

10. And it came to pass that Lehi became exceedingly more zealous in his religion, yea, even did he stand in the streets of Jerusalem and preach unto the people. And he would tellest his dreams to all who could hear him. And thus sayeth Lehi unto those who passeth by: Verily I say, repent for Jerusalem shall be utterly destroyed.

11. And it came to pass that the people did throw fruit at Lehi, and the children felt it needs be to laugh at him and call names unto him, yea, even calling him crazy street preacher man, and the children did make funny faces at Lehi, and they did mock him exceedingly, even with exceeding mockingness.

12. And it came to pass that these things did maketh Lehi to be exceedingly angry, wherefore, he denounced his persecutors saying: Wo be unto ye who doth seek to persecute me, for the Lord shall destroy Jerusalem and strikest ye down if ye repent not. And if ye shall ignore my warnings, yea, I shall watch thy destruction and laugh.

13. And it came to pass that Lehi had upon his face a beard of much whiteness, yea even as white as the driven snow. And yea, he shaveth not his beard for many months. Wherefore, his white beard was long and he did appear like unto a wizard.

14. And the children beheld Lehi, and did point at him, and mock him saying: Go up, thou white beard; go up, thou white beard.

15. And Lehi looketh upon the children with exceeding anger in his eyes, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she dogs from the neighborhood who did bark at the children, and did threaten them, and nip at their ankles.

16. And the children did laugh at the dogs, and point at them, and mock them exceedingly, for they were but small poodles, yea, even like unto cats. And the children kicked the dogs with their feet, and the dogs fled from the children, and did weep and wail, and they did hide under a bush. And when Lehi beheld that his dog curse had no effect on the wicked children, yea, it was that he was sore afraid, for the children did pickest up rocks from the ground and throw the rocks at Lehi. And when Lehi beheld the children throwing rocks at him, yea, he did scream in terror, and run away from the children as fast as he could, and he fled to his home, and locked the doors, and hid behind his couch.

17. And it came to pass that the children beheld where Lehi ran, and therefore they beheld where he dwelt. And the children went home and gathereth up amongst them many eggs. And after the manner in which they gathereth eggs, yea, the children did return to in front of Lehi’s house and commenced throwing the eggs, and the eggs did make a mess on the house, and Sariah spake unto her husband: Lehi, goest out and chastise those little children, for they throwest eggs at our house.

18. But Lehi was sore afraid of the children, for they threw rocks at him.

19. And it came to pass that I beheld the children throwing eggs at Lehi’s house, and I did think of my friend Nephi, and I determined that it must needs be that I should help his family

20. And I beheld the children gathering up dog waste, yea, not the yellow liquid type, but the other kind, yea, even brown dung. And the children placed the brown dog dung in a paper bag. And they deviseth a plan, yea, even an evil and cunning plan to trick Lehi and make a mockery of him. Yea, the children conspired amongst themselves to set fire unto the bag filled with dog dung, and then shall they place the bag on Lehi’s front porch. And inasmuch as the bag shall burn on Lehi’s porch, the children shall knock on Lehi’s door, and after knocking on Lehi’s door, yea, the children shall run and hide themselves amongst the bushes.

21. And when Lehi doth answer the door and doth see the burning bag, yea, he shall desire to put out the fire, even with his foot, and therefore he shall stomp on the bag with his feet, yea, even with all his might, thus getting the brown dog dung on his feet, and the children shall laugh. And this shall complete phase one of the conspiracy, after which the wicked children shall commence phase two in which, as Lehi stompeth the bag with his feet, yea, another wicked child shall knock on the back door. And after the child doth knock on the back door, yea, Lehi shall walk through the house to answer the back door, and by doing so he shall track the brown dog dung through Sariah’s clean house, and Sariah shall curse at him, yea, even a sore cursing.

22. And it came to pass that the plan was perfect but for one thing, the evil ones knoweth not that I heard their plan and was desirous to stop it. And I did taketh out my sling, and I spake out to the wicked children, saying: Whosoever amongst ye is thy leader?

23. And the tall one amongst them spake, and sayest unto me: Behold, I am he.

24. And it came to pass that I did reach to the ground and picketh up a stone and slang it, and the stone did strike the leader betwixt the legs, yeah even did it strike his precious jewels, yea, even the jewels that doth hold his precious seed.

25. And when the stone did strike the leader in his jewel sack, yea, he did fall to the ground, and grasp his jewels, and cry out in exceeding pain, and tremble in fear of me and my sling. And the leader of the wicked children did lie on the ground, for he was defeated, and in exceedingly great pain, and wherefore he began to weep.

26. And when the other children beheld that their champion was defeated, and that he was crying like unto a little girl, yea, they fled and Lehi’s family was spared.

27. And now the words which I have said unto thee thus far, and written upon these gold plates, must confound thee, for I did proofread the plates and do see that my narrative lacks character development. Nevertheless, the words I write are true.

28. Now it behooves me to flash back in time to explain the early parts of this story so that ye might understand it better.

29. Wherefore, the plot and characters of which I write must cause unto thee much confusion. But yea, forgive me, for rare are the gold plates and writing upon them is exceedingly difficult and time consuming, for reformed Asian is not a compact language and doth require much space, for it is even less compact than writing in regular language. Wherefore, I did suppose that it must needs be that I should skip the character development, but now I do realize that to be an exceedingly bad plan, for character development is crucial.

30. And it shall come to pass that I shall endeavor to makest unto me more gold plates, yea even enough so as to flashback in time, and tell the back-story of these characters and develop them more.

31. And thus I close this, the first chapter of my record, so as I may pound and flatten more gold plates, soeth I may write the prequel to this chapter.

After reading the Book of Zelph I can guarantee that your life will never be the same.

204 posted on 05/17/2007 5:15:06 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Maybe he was from the Cirus star system.


205 posted on 05/17/2007 5:16:16 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: marsh_of_mists
Not to mention, oh, the Resurrection

But you just accurately quoted me as mentioning the resurrection.

And I think Kim is a man.

If I'm going to have to correct all your posts, I'll never fix dinner and we'll all starve (and you wouldn't want that, would you?)

206 posted on 05/17/2007 5:18:06 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD; IrishCatholic; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
I assume then, based on your comment and my comprehension, that you are labeling all us Protestants as "Jihadist". At least it gives me great comfort to know that I'm not the only "Jihadist" on this thread. I was worried.

Ministry changes name to Campus Jihad for Christ

ORLANDO — In an effort to broaden their international appeal, Campus Crusade for Christ, the venerable evangelism organization founded by Bill and Vonette Bright 52 years ago, has changed its name to Campus Jihad for Christ.
"When the ministry started in 1951, 'crusade' was a bold, evocative word," says Campus Jihad spokesman Tony Ulkes. "Now it has negative overtones and kind of a fifteenth-century ring to it, particularly in Europe and the Middle East, where we're expanding. But 'jihad' is considered by young people to be new and fresh, and it means virtually the same thing as 'crusade'. So we're changing with the times."
But some observers call the change a sure way to alienate their core constituency.
"This is a grave miscalculation," says church history professor Timothy Wilds of the University of Florida, Miami. "I'm not sure they'll win any more converts, and it's quite possible they'll anger a lot of long-time supporters."
The impetus for the change came as the ministry found it increasingly difficult to set up debates with Muslim groups on university campuses because of the 'crusade' moniker. And students recently introduced to the ministry often assumed it was started after September 11, 2001, in response to terrorism.
The name changes will flow down the employee chart. Campus ministers will now be called campus mujahideen, or holy warriors. Regional directors will be known as fedayeen Christ. Fedayeen means "one who sacrifices himself for a cause" in Arabic.
"With no disrespect meant to Mohammed, we'd like students to join the true jihad — the jihad of Christ," says Ulkes.
The change will also solve a small but consistent problem: the inevitable handful of students who joined the group thinking it was the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medievalist group which holds fairs and festivals in the spirit of Olde England.
"We're all happy to be rid of the 'crusade' label," says Ulkes. "This is a new day for us."


207 posted on 05/17/2007 5:19:42 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Did I mention that the descendants of Nephi and Lehi married and produced a child with purple hued skin who later became the inspiration for an American soda pop?

Can you guess which one?

208 posted on 05/17/2007 5:22:11 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

Isn’t this excerpt from one of those seven “extra” books slipped into the bible so as to justify the use of straws?


209 posted on 05/17/2007 5:25:09 PM PDT by pjr12345
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To: pjr12345
Isn’t this excerpt from one of those seven “extra” books slipped into the bible so as to justify the use of straws?

Boy are you way off base.

It's not straws, it's peanuts.

210 posted on 05/17/2007 5:26:58 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

I’ve never been good with extra-biblical writings, especially prophetic books concerning fruits and nuts.


211 posted on 05/17/2007 5:30:30 PM PDT by pjr12345
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To: Alex Murphy
Give me a good fedora any day. That, or a propeller beanie.

There's no such thing as a "good" fedora, and propeller beanies can be quite dangerous for passers-by when worn by men with small chins and large props.

Stick with either the coonskin cap or dangling, plastic earrings shaped like lava lamps.

As a good disguise, I suggest a crying infant. No one will come near you.

But I don't have to tell you that, do I, Don Diego? (shhh...your moustache is crooked...oh, you're not wearing moustache? Even better.)

212 posted on 05/17/2007 5:30:36 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

Sounds like last week’s “Smallville.”


213 posted on 05/17/2007 5:32:15 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: pjr12345

It takes years and years of devoted study, especially of ancient soda pop.


214 posted on 05/17/2007 5:33:53 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Risky-Riskerdo

Vodka?


215 posted on 05/17/2007 5:33:53 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
One down, two to go.

Try again.

216 posted on 05/17/2007 5:34:29 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Alex Murphy
LOLOL.

But 'jihad' is considered by young people to be new and fresh, and it means virtually the same thing as 'crusade'.

Yep, and sanctification means exactly the same thing as justification... /not.

217 posted on 05/17/2007 5:37:06 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Sounds like last week’s “Smallville.”

It will change your life, put a whole new perspective on reality, and give an inner gesticulation like no other book.

Here, take the Book of Zelph challenge from the discoverer of the Other Testament to the Book of Mormon

The Book of Zelph Challenge

Many people scoff when told how the Book of Zelph came about. These people are basically saying the Book of Zelph is a fraud, and I am a con-man. My enemies claim I simply wrote the book. Well, what one man can do, another can do. The challenge that the Book of Zelph makes to the world is that of duplication. Because the Book of Zelph complies with all the following conditions, in order to produce something similar, one must comply with the same conditions.

Here is the challenge. Can you accept it?

1) Write a history of Ancient Greece. Why Ancient Greece? Because nobody knows anything about ancient Greece, just like I don't know anything about Ancient America.

2) You are 21 years old.

3) You are a high school dropout who works at Chuck-E-Cheeses, with no real future to look forward to, and no hope of living a happy, fulfilling life.

4) Your book must be written based on what little knowledge you have. I didn't have a computer or a library card, and no books at home. Therefore, you can't use the library, books, or the Internet to do research.

5) Your book must be really thick, with no pictures (a chapter book).

6) You must not make any corrections to your first draft, despite being told by your friends to clean up the horrid grammar, ridiculous anachronisms, and gaping plot holes. Your first draft must stand forever as your final draft.

7) This book must contain the true history of two distinct and separate nations.

8) Create a bunch of characters who will pretend to be authors in your book. Change your style of writing to match the style and personalities of the various authors in the Book of Zelph.

9) Weave into your history the story of Nephi chopping off Laban's head.

10) You must have the balls to claim that your epic masterpice is not merely a great fictional novel, but a real true history of Ancient America. You must publish it on the Internet for the whole world to see, and challenge people to roll the dice on its truthfulness.

11) You must include in your book lots of chapters dealing with war, a few chapters dealing with magic and witchcraft, lots of violence, sexual innuendo, descriptions of graphic sex acts, tribal customs, crop circles, political conspiracies, and revenge. Everything you write must totally agree with what we know about these things today.

12) You must include descriptions of your character's customs, mode of travel, outfits, hobbies, types of governments, weapons, skin color, emotions, conflicts, etc. You must invent lots of names that are not like regular English names.

13) You must properly use figures of speech, similes, metaphors, irony, foreshadowing, chiasmus, plot development, character arcs, and you must build the suspense to an exciting climax where the villain is defeated by the hero. At the end of your book, your characters must have learned something from their experiences.

14) You must invite the smartest people in the world to examine your book with care, and you must strive to make sure your book gets into smart people's hands so that they can scrutinize it and try to prove it a forgery.

15) Thorough investigation of the truthfulness of your book by these smart people must appear to prove your book false. However, scientific studies performed by some of your smart followers must show that it might possibly be true.

16) You must not include anything too absurd or silly (except for magic stuff), and you must try to be consistent and try to avoid internal contradictions in your text, or at least avoid contradictions that can't be explained.

17) Many people must come up with theories as to how you wrote the book, but all the theories must fail according to you and your followers. You claim the book came about because of a magic rock given to you by a ghost, and that claim must stand as the only possible explanation for the translation of the book. As time goes on, your magic rock claim must become more and more plausible to your followers, until it becomes the only explanation your followers will accept for the existence of the book.

18) Your book must answer questions brought up by the Book of Mormon. It must explain why Lamanites have Asian DNA, why there is no evidence of Nephite civilization, and what exactly was a Book of Mormon horse.

19) Call down a pair of ghosts in the middle of the day to give you the magic rock and plates. Convince thirteen honest citizens to pretend to be a witness to the plates. These people must swear the plates are real even after they stop hanging out with you because you slept with their girlfriends and conned them into MLM schemes.

20) You must include within your record this promise, "And I promise thee that if ye ask if this book be not true, and roll a pair of dice with a sincere heart, and desire exceedingly for the book to be true, yea, the dice shall reveal the truthfulness of this book unto thee."

21) Your followers must tell everyone they know that they know your book is true because they rolled the dice, and got a seven, and the dice confirmed the book is true.

22) You must convince people to give you their money, and do everything you say, all because they think the book is true.

22) Your book must have the power to make those who believe it to be true the coolest most awesome people ever.

23) You must be persecuted for writing the book. Your co-workers must make fun of you, and someone must piss in your Big Gulp when you're not looking. You must eventually be fired from your Chuck-E-Cheeses job on trumped up charges like "chronic tardiness" and "didn't show up for his shift." Some of your friends must stop talking to you, and call you names like "weirdo" and "nut-job". This is the type of environment in which you must write your masterpiece.

24) Start right now and produce this book, which covers a history of 1000 years, while suffering the persecution described in #23. Please have your book completed, and talk your friend into building a website to publish it for all to read, and do it all in 60 days. Good luck!

As you can see, there is only one answer: The Book of Zelph came about the way I said it did, translated from ancient leather plates using a magic rock given to me by a ghost. Any other explanation is completely crazy.

- Josh Anderson

218 posted on 05/17/2007 5:40:03 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
It's either Schnapps or Nehi Grape Soda.

(But I really think it's Kool-Aid.)

219 posted on 05/17/2007 5:41:51 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
3) You are a high school dropout who works at Chuck-E-Cheeses, with no real future to look forward to, and no hope of living a happy, fulfilling life.

Is it acceptable to substitute Circuit City for Chuck-E-Cheese?

220 posted on 05/17/2007 5:42:57 PM PDT by pjr12345
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