Posted on 05/13/2007 3:42:05 PM PDT by xangel0228
On Saturday, May 12th, a contingent of Traditional Catholics in San Antonio, TX perform their annual “Pilgrimage along the Mission Trail” to celebrate and remember the sacrifice and service of the original Catholic Missionaries that pioneered the Catholic Church in Texas.
The near 7 mile walk starts at Mission Concepcion and end at Mission Espada. At each mission, the group would stop and say a certain devotion, whether it be the Stations of the Cross, the Rosary, or the Litany of St. Joseph.
Sounds harmless, especially since the Missions received thousands of visitors a year, from all faiths, right?
Wrong.
When this contingent of Catholics arrived at the first mission, Mission Concepcion, they were told by an obviously nervous Park Ranger that they were not to enter the mission, by order or Archbishop Jose H. Gomez, the Archbishop of San Antonio.
(Excerpt) Read more at youngtraditionalcatholics.com ...
"We just want the way it was..." Well, you can want whatever you want but it is NOT YOUR CALL. Jesus Christ established and empowered the papacy for any number of reasons including the ecclesiastical governance of those who claim to be Catholic (whether we Catholics like it or not) and it does not matter that the excommunicated schismatics disagree except in terms of the consequences to the souls of the schismatic excommunicati.
I think it was Jesus Christ (our Founder) who issued the Great Commission to go and teach all nations, baptizing them. He did not exclude SSPX or atheistic Marxists or Buddhists or Hindus but few among those groups are willing to listen. If SSPX ever fully repents and seeks re-admission to the Roman Catholic Church, I feel sure that this pope or some successor pope will let us know.
The CATHOLIC claim is that the rulings of Pope John Paul II and the fact that Pope Benedict XVI has not seen fit to change the status quo established in JP II's Ecclesia Dei trump the speculations of any mere ecclesiastical inferiors. No more than the likes of Walter Cardinal Kasper or Roger Cardinal Mahoney does Dario Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos have the authority to trump papal rulings whether the impudent schismatics of SSPX like to think so or pretend to think so or not.
It is the schism that thinks itself exempt from papal authority and seethes in raging hatred of John Paul the Great for calling the SSPX to account, declaring the SSPX to be a schism and expelling the ringleaders from the Church.
Thank you very much. I understood your question and didn’t think it was meant as an accusation. The situation is confusing, the reports are confusing, and it is geuninely hard to figure out what’s going on. There will always be people (on all sides of an argument) who will take advantage of confusion to sow discord, of course - in fact, I think it’s one of Satan’s major ways of trying to destroy Christian faith and set us against each other.
I’m sure you’ve been reading the great things the Pope has been saying about evangelization and the revival of faith in Latin America! I feel as if I have waited decades to hear somebody call the Church in Latin America back to its primary mission (preaching Christ).
Yes, I’m so impressed by what the Pope is doing in Latin America. It reminds me in some ways of the statements of the Anglican Primates in Africa, Archbishop Akinola and so on.
The Bishops have a huge task, but God will prosper their efforts IF they are working at their own job, and not something totally different.
I STILL think the whole point is being missed here.
If I wouldn’t have mentioned the SSPX, then there wouldn’t be this much controversy.
Look at the sitatuation this way:
An area is setup, and has never had any sort of restricitons to who could go in or out. The suddenly, a group of people are prevented from entering becuase ‘x’ is wrong, even though the ‘x’ has never been applied before.
Doesn’t that sound a little hypocritical? This goes beyond the SSPX.
I disagree. The issue is not the presence of people of different religions at the missions. All kinds of tourists go in and out without any fuss, and without anyone raising the issue of their religious faith or lack thereof.
The point is the performance of a public religious ritual by an organized group. If Methodists wanted to hold a wedding in one of the missions, I’m sure the Archbishop would refuse permission, because it is a Catholic church, in which only Catholic religious rituals can be held, in addition to being a historic site which any polite tourist may visit.
You appear to have the concepts confused, but I see no “hypocrisy” or even inconsistency in having a site open to any tourist, of any faith or none, but closed to non-Catholic public religious observances.
I actually enjoy and agree with a great number of your posts so I don’t want to get into it with you.
Actually, I respect the papacy as well as those Popes who have occupied that office since my birth, although I feel that Vatican II itself was a grievous error and the implementation of V2 an even greater tragedy. My sentiments lie with SSPX and similar groups, although I have never yet assisted at a Mass at one of their parishes.
Very sorry to hear that Jerry Falwell passed away.
Yes, so am I.
And you call us disobedient.
Hypocrites.
P.S. Pope JPII's decree was not infallible. Your continued ranting won't ever change that fact.
I would certainly applaud Dario Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos IF he were in the habt of recognizing the obvious truth (Ecclesia Dei) that the schism is NOT Catholic, its leaders are excommunicated and its movement and adherents are in schism. I applaud any hierarch who is doing his job. Castrillon de Hoyos is giving ongoing aid and comfort to the enemies of Catholicism. That is NOT his job.
We call the SSPX schismatics and particularly the SSPX excommunicati what they are: schismatics and schismatic excommunicati. We do not pretend that the pseudo-rightist rebels of SSPX are Catholics any more than we would pretend that SSPX's counterparts in angry disobedience of Church authority such as John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Rosa DeLauro and other leftist rebels ought to be the beneficiaries of any pretense of Catholicism. Actual Catholics are consistent Catholics, in obedience to the pope. The moment that Pope Benedict XVI or any other pope overrules Ecclesia Dei and readmits the SSPX schismatics and SSPX schismatic excommunicati to Holy Mother the Church is the moment that I will regard them as Catholics and not one moment sooner.
Speaking of hypocrites, O devotee of and apologist for the SSPX schism, tell us all the things you love about Walter Cardinal Kaspar (no less a curial cardinal than Castrillon de Hoyos and no more authoritative which is to say that neither have genuine authority in the sense that any pope does). Castrillon de Hoyos need express no opinion conflicting with that of John Paul the Great or Benedict XVI. Luther's insistence against the Truth of the Faith had no authority. Neither does the insistence on error of Dario Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos or Walter Cardinal Kaspar. You wouldn't have a reference to an authoritative Church document indicating the infallibility of each individual cardinal? I didn't think so.
Yes, I call you disobedient. I call SSPX disobedient. I call the Archschismatic Lefebvre disobedient along with each of his execrable and unrepentant illicit bishops and their squad of antiCatholic sycophants. There is a reason. The best reason. Each and every one is an ecclesiastical criminal guilty of grand theft ecclesiastical. Each and every one is grossly disobedient. That is not my judgment but the judgment of Pope John Paul the Great (the one who held the keys when Lefebvre and company were excommunicating themselves and the pope was declaring the SSPX schizzies to be, well, schismatic).
What makes John Paul the Great fallible on this matter and makes him subject to being overruled by the subordinate likes of Dario Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos? Your tastes and preferences? Certainly not ecclesiastical authority. Face it. If ever there were an "adherent" to the SSPX schism, you would seem to qualify and that means that you should not feign Catholicism before the general public, thereby scandalizing them, another regular feature of the schism.
Membership in the Roman Catholic Church is not a dress-up or costume party or a "come as you are" party. Instead, it is a submission to papal authority thing. Those expelled who remain unrepentant have no opinions worthy of consideration by actual Catholics. Kumbaya is a really bad idea when extended to enemies of the Church of any stripe much less those who pretend to be Catholic while remaining in enmity towards the Church whether Hans Kung or Marcel LeFebvre (or de Mallerais, or Williamson or Fellay).
The marchers should have brought along a liberal pro-abort politician to receive in their behalf.
I think you need to retract your#54. Don't you?
We don't have to fight but I am not likely to be silent in the face of such defamations of my Church.
You misinterpreted my remark if you thought I had implied that an exercise of papal authority — for good reason and correctly — is analogous to Nazism, fascism, or even plain bad governance. I didn’t ever mean that and the remark was more an expression of a bad stomachache than anything else so I won’t try to defend it. Sorry, NYer.
I WANT the Pope to vigorously exercise his authority to condemn evil and encourage good. However, as the Blessed Virgin had warned us, meanings of good and evil would invert in the latter part of the 20th century and therefore we had a Pope condemning what is good: Lefebvre seeking to preserve the Tridentine rite and protect it from protestantization and bastardization from the vernacular culture. Until just recently, we also witnessed a remarkable tolerance for evil — in terms of culture of death thinking, among other moral perversions, infiltrating certain well-known “Catholic” politicians, hospital administrators (i.e. death pills), priests in the case of sexual improprieties, and others.
Obviously, the modernism and liberalism of the post-Conciliar Church is what gets up the dander of the trads, including myself, along with an outright contempt at times for that which made the Catholic Mass what it is (or was). An example of the latter that comes to mind are those priests who deny communicants the desire to receive the Host on the tongue while kneeling. This is quite common, and has happened to at least one individual multiple times at different parishes. But if you’ll stand, sir, and receive the Host in the hand from a female Eucharistic minister we’ll be more than happy to oblige. This is outrageous and a desecration of the host.
Membership in the Roman Catholic Church is not a dress-up or costume party or a "come as you are" party.
Actually, I peeked into a Novus Ordo Mass a couple Sundays ago from the vestibule after picking up some kids from Sunday School. The dress of several persons attending the Mass did in fact resemble a (beach) costume party.
while remaining in enmity towards the Church
Far be it from enmity, Archbishop Lefebvre possessed enormous love for the Church and the Mass and tried to prevent their destruction.
The Novus Ordo Mass hangs on because bishops reasonably abhor the impudent attitude of the schismatics who claim to speak for tradition while rejecting Church authority. Roger McCaffery who founded Latin Mass Magazine wrote a very wise article there years ago about how it is the liberal bishops who paradoxically have been most generous in allowing Tridentine Masses (probably because they believe that liturgy does not matter or because they want to ghettoize conservative Catholics to their own congregations of like-minded folk where they won't actually see the depredations of the Kumbaya liberal congregations). More conservative bishops with the notable exception of our Rockford conservative bishop Thomas Doran, generally regard the hatred of authority that is the hallmark of Marcel's schism with horror. As a Church, it is easier to survive liturgical follies than to incorporate vicious revolutionary rejection of authority and the anarchy it creates.
Jesus Christ guaranteed that we would survive as a Church in any event but we have no obligation to make the task harder by embracing the markedly unrepentant SSPX vipers. It is a pleasure to reside in the Rockford Diocese where Tridentine worship is made freely available without being sullied by the anarchy that is SSPX.
Cardinal Hoyos is the Pope's point man for dealing with Trads in general and the Society in particular. He does not give his personal opinion as the official Vatican position. He does the Pope's bidding. You are on the losing side babe. Enjoy the limited time you have left to spout your hatred.
You really should learn more about your own religion. I'm embarrassed for you.
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