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To: blue-duncan
“1Pe 1:18, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:””

This Scripture DOES NOT deny the Sacraments at all!

Why do you think that the Lamb had to be eaten at the original Passover (Exodus 12:1-42)? The Lamb had to be eaten,if not your firstborn son would have been killed. At the last supper Jesus said “take this and eat it, this is my body. This is NOT a coincidence.

This is the Eucharist the New Covenant with Christ,this is Typed and Prefigured thruout Scripture.

The Early Christians saw this Clearly, EVERY SINGLE ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

Some examples..
ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
St. Cyprian of Carthage converted from paganism to Christianity around the year 246 A.D. Soon afterwards, he aspired to the priesthood and eventually was ordained Bishop of Carthage. He was beheaded for his Faith in the year 258 A.D., thus he was the first African bishop to have been martyred.,

“So too the the sacred meaning of the Pasch lies essentially in the fact, laid down in Exodus, that the lamb - slain as a type of Christ - should be eaten in one single home. God says the words: ‘In one house shall it be eaten, ye shall not cast its flesh outside.’ The flesh of Christ and the Lord’s sacred body cannot be cast outside, nor have believers any other home but the one Church.”,

-”The Unity of the Catholic Church”. Ch.8, circa 249-258 A.D.,

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).

“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood...” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).

“He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

“But what consistency is there in those who hold that the bread over which thanks have been given is the Body of their Lord, and the cup His Blood, if they do not acknowledge that He is the Son of the Creator of the world...” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18, 2 (c. A.D. 200).

“For the blood of the grape—that is, the Word—desired to be mixed with water, as His blood is mingled with salvation. And the blood of the Lord is twofold. For there is the blood of His flesh, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and the spiritual, that by which we are anointed. And to drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord’s immortality; the Spirit being the energetic principle of the Word, as blood is of flesh. Accordingly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. And the one, the mixture of wine and water, nourishes to faith; while the other, the Spirit, conducts to immortality. And the mixture of both—of the water and of the Word—is called Eucharist, renowned and glorious grace; and they who by faith partake of it are sanctified both in body and soul.” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, 2 (ante A.D. 202

Are these People the Heretics to you,or is it possible that your pride is holding you back to accept the truth,Dear Brother?

Good Night.
I Wish you a Blessed Evening

79 posted on 05/10/2007 6:54:02 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg

The Passover lamb that was eaten saved the firstborn once, at the first eating, not every time they celebrated the Passover Feast. Then it was a memorial, just like communion. You obey the command to trust Jesus, the Lamb of God, once for your salvation, the celebration of communion is the memorial, just like Passover. That’s what the 1 Pet. 1:18 passage is saying. We are not redeemed with corruptible things like bread and wine. That is superstitous tradition.


80 posted on 05/10/2007 7:10:37 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: stfassisi

Only Zwingli and the Anabaptists denied the sacraments as means of grace—like most modern baptists and other evangelicals.

Both Luther and Calvin, and their heirs, accepted the sacraments as means of grace, just without the philosophy of the pagan Aristotle, which is required to believe in the 4th Lateran Council’s dogma of transubstantiation.

Luther especially is closest to most of the early Fathers in his full acceptance of the Real Presence of Jesus’ body in the elements.

Calvin also agreed and taught St. Augustine’s definition of the sacraments as “visible words,” teaching Christ’s real presence in the sacraments mediated by the Holy Spirit.

Both men, along with most of the magisterial Protestants, were serious students of the early Church Fathers, especially St. Augustine, and the Capadocian Fathers.

As far as viewing the body and blood as somehow our representment or resacrifice or repeat of Christ’ work on the cross back to God? All Protestants have rejected that—as it is entirely absent from the authoritative writings of the Apostles.


84 posted on 05/10/2007 7:45:03 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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