Posted on 04/26/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Ask Mark Briscoe, leader of the Howell ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the greatest misconception about the church, and he doesn't have to think very long or hard.
"Sometimes people would say that we're not Christians," he said. "We definitely are. We believe in Jesus Christ."
An Idaho native, Briscoe has been a Mormon his whole life, and said it is painful to have others think that his church is somehow outside the boundaries of Christianity. He said he was a high school student when he first heard the accusation.
"It was a little bit unsettling," he said. "From my earliest memories, we talked about Jesus Christ." In fact, members of the church believe that Jesus' teachings were changed and weakened soon after the apostles died, and that this "apostasy," or falling away from the truth, led to the withdrawal of the true church from the earth.
Mormons believe that was reversed when Joseph Smith, regarded as a prophet, was visited by God and Jesus in a vision in 1820. That's when Smith was chosen to restore the true church to the world, according to LDS doctrine. Smith translated the Book of Mormon, the sacred text of the Latter Day Saints, which is based on the Bible.
The Mormons' refer to this process as the "restoration."
The religion has received increased attention as Mitt Romney's prominence as a presidential candidate has risen. As happened with John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president, some political observers have questioned whether Romney's Mormonism will hurt his electability, or his conduct as president if he's eventually elected.
Jan Shipps, an expert in the LDS church, a professor emeritus of history and religious studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, and a Methodist, said that concern is overhyped.
She said that, unlike Catholicism, in which a politician can be denied communion for votes in support of abortion rights, for example, the Mormon church does not directly influence its members who happen to be politicians.
A local bishop can exclude a church member from the temple, but that's about it, Shipps said.
"They don't have any official way to control their members, except to say that they can go into or cannot go into the temple," Shipps said.
"I just don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of people think it is because the president of the church is also understood to be a prophet," she said. "But the likelihood that the president of the church would have a revelation that the president has to do this or has to do that is less than zero."
Briscoe agreed with Shipps' assessment that any influence the church would have over members would be at the local level. But even that would not include anything political.
"We never say we're for one candidate or the other," he said. "Our view is that's not proper."
There is some evidence, however, that Romney is getting a lot of support from Mormons — 13 percent of the money he's raised so far, or $2.37 million, has come from the state of Utah, home of the church's headquarters.
Local ties, global reach Briscoe's title is "Bishop," analogous to a pastor, but he doesn't receive a salary from the church. That goes for all other leaders as well. Briscoe works as a powertrain engineer for Ford Motor Co. in Livonia.
"It makes for a very busy life, that's for sure," he said.
The LDS church on West Grand River Avenue in Howell has 400 members; holds services every Sunday; and has youth activities during the week.
One of the hallmarks of the church is the cooperation and support between members.
"A main focus is to provide service to one another," Briscoe said.
Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said.
"Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call."
The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.
Mormon services are not the raucous or musical affairs that other denominations celebrate.
"'Reverent' is the word we like to use," Briscoe said.
A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject.
Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services. The church has a reputation for secrecy, but Shipps said it's not just for the sake of exclusion.
"A better way to say it is what goes on in the temple is sacred and therefore private, rather than secret," she said. "All temples are closed to anyone except those who the bishop recommends."
Outreach also is an important part of the Mormon philosophy. Most men do two years of missionary work when they're around 19 years old, and unmarried women do 18 months. One of Briscoe's own sons is in Brazil right now as a missionary.
College age is an ideal time to go abroad as a missionary because it exposes one to the world, yet still gives a person time to start a family. And family, Briscoe said, is a foundational piece of the Mormon church.
"We do believe in families," he said. "We believe a man and a woman should get married and raise a family, so we encourage that."
Briscoe himself was a missionary in Spain: "I learned probably as much from that experience as I did from college."
Mormons also are aware of opportunities to tell friends and other social acquaintances about Mormonism, Briscoe said, and how to approach people is a subject of conversation in the church.
"As life goes on, you get into discussions about your beliefs," he said. "We feel like what we have is so important ... we really feel deeply that what we believe is the truth."
The church has been fairly successful in bringing more people in. There are about 6 million members of the LDS church in United States, and more than that abroad, Shipps said.
Not universally embraced Many of the church's practices have prompted criticism from other religions. Polygamy, the practice of husbands having more than one wife, may be the most enduring stereotype of Mormons. But it hasn't been practiced since 1890 by the church, and is strictly prohibited.
The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.
Shipps said it was done to give non-Mormons the choice in the afterlife of becoming Mormon. That's also why there's such an emphasis in the church on genealogy — so that all one's relatives can be identified and baptized, she said.
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Now, Shipps said, the LDS church has made strong inroads into nonwhite areas such as Japan, South Korea and Africa.
"There may be as many people worshipping on Sunday in Spanish-speaking areas than English-speaking," she said.
Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."
Shipps said the thing that sets Mormonism apart — and ironically draws the ire of both Christians and Jews — is the belief that the church is re-gathering the twelve tribes of Israel.
"It's a very complex and interesting and powerful theology, but for those looking at it from the outside, it seems somewhat strange because it has, in addition to Christian claims, claims to be the restoration of Israel," Shipps said.
Another notable Mormon belief is that the church president is a prophet, and receives the word of God.
"We believe God does talk to man," Briscoe said. "He chooses one prophet at a time."
Regardless of the negativity and criticism they may run into, he said, most Mormons aren't swayed.
"When people say things, we're still confident and confident in what we know to be right," he said.
If Jesus thinks they way you do then we does he give us this command if he knows we will fail?
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Dang it, this sure sounds Mormon to me)
YES, you are right to a certain point. We will all fail. And we will fail, again and again, almost endlessly. But on the other hand, I reject the idea, that we can just “magically” confess a belief in Jesus Christ and then sit on our butts! I believe that we have to do it relying solely on the Jesus Christ and put effort in it. Like the old saying says with two people, nothing is impossible, if one of them is God.
Ok, putting down Jesus is way too strong. In my opinion, you find more value in the words of Isaiah and Genesis then do you find in the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Is that a fair assesment?
Go back and read my posts where I say that the ENTIRE BIBLE IS THE WORD, AND JESUS IS THE WORD. AND YOU CANNOT HAVE THE WORD WITHOUT JESUS, AND YOU CANNOT HAVE JESUS WITHOUT THE WORD.
AND YOU CANNOT HAVE A NEW TESTAMENT WITHOUT AN OLD.
You cannot pick and chose which quotes of the Bible you like best and throw away the pesky ones that you don’t agree with, like those in the OLD TESTAMENT.
ALL OF THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ARE EQUAL.
Where does it say that? I worship Jesus first. Not the Song of Solomon which praises women’s breasts and so on.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. From my very limited understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy, I would say that the LDS doctrine of exaltation resembles theosis. We also believe that we come to partake in the divine nature of God but not apart from God. As children of God, we may become like Him; but He will always be our Father and God.
Also, you say that Mormons do not expect to be equal to God the Father. What about Christ?
Nor do we expect to be equal to Christ. As D&C 76:59 says, "they [the sons of God] are Christ's and Christ is God's." I take that to mean that we will be subject to Christ, even as he is subject to the Father.
However, this was on another site:
The wrongful baptism of Jewish dead, which disparages the memory of a deceased person is a brazen act which will obscure the historical record for future generations. It has been bitterly opposed by many Jews for a number of years. Others say they will never stop being Jews, simply because there is a paper saying they had been baptized, that the act of posthumous baptism is unimportant and should be ignored. We think this to be a narrow, parochial, and shallow view. We will continue opposing this wrongful act which assimilates our dead to the point where it will not be possible to know who was Jewish in their lifetimes.
This author was among the first genealogists to discover the names of thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims in the International Genealogical Index (the "IGI") 1, the official Mormon index of proxy baptisms for the dead, and soon exposed this misguided practice.
The names were extracted 2 mainly from two Holocaust memorial books. Gedenkbuch was extracted by individuals; the Memorbuch was part of the Church's 'Extraction Program', an ongoing program that acquired records and distributed them to trained Church member volunteers who then extracted the names and submitted them for posthumous baptism.3
A protest drive initiated by Jewish genealogists escalated it to a nationally publicized issue that was followed by public outcry. American Jewish leaders considered it an insult and a major setback for interfaith relations. They initiated discussions with the Mormon Church that culminated in a voluntary 1995 agreement by the Church to remove the inappropriate names. Activists continue to monitor Mormon baptismal lists, seeking removal of inappropriate entries.
Has the church done anything to uphold its decade-old agreement with the Jewish community? The bad news is that the Mormons did (and still do) hijack Jewish genocide victims and other Jewish dead. Moreover, when a Jew is baptized, the door is open for all of his deceased ancestors to be baptized as well. Regrettably, their baptismal records place before the public a revisionist view that these deceased Jews were Mormons, a position they would have rejected in life.
A commentator on this topic said that anti-Semites who desecrate Jewish cemeteries want to destroy even the memory of Jews by breaking their tombstones and other symbols whereby we honor and remember them. He concluded that baptism of the Jewish dead is just a more sophisticated form of breaking tombstones. A blogger wrote: "I don't buy the argument that it's done for selfless reasons. It's not selflessness, it's arrogance. And especially in light of the Mormon Church's agreement in 1995 to stop baptizing Holocaust victims, it's even more reprehensible for them to continue the practice. If a church can't be trusted to keep its word in a matter such as this, then where is its moral standing?"
And another article from the associated press, April 10, 2004
Hillary Met With Hatch to Halt Mormon Rituals for WWII Jews:
Salt Lake City -- Despite a directive from Mormon leaders to stop the practice, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have continued posthumously baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims, adding more concentration camp victims to its roster of those offered conversion in the afterlife.
A New York Jewish organization was so outraged that it asked U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton to intervene, prompting a meeting in early March between the former first lady and Utah Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch, an LDS church member, The Associated Press has learned.
"It was a private meeting between two senators," Clinton said when declining to comment on what was discussed. Likewise, Hatch, through a spokesman, would not comment, calling it a private matter.
However, Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, said he asked Clinton to intervene to force the Mormon church to abide by a 1995 agreement to stop the posthumous baptisms.
Color, I don’t know whether to congratulate or commiserate.
I have a fond spot for the Catholics.
I have met some exemplary souls and felt a mutual kinship!:)
...you realized needlenose_neely, you would be the only Danites the rest of us are LDS!:)
I don’t know either. I will have to address the wrath of my mother and husband, but I suppose it is about time!
I may end up divorced because of it, but hey, whatever makes the Mormons on this site happy. They were not content with just calling me hateful, liar, apostate...they also needed to villainize me for not officially renouncing my membership at LDS Church headquarters.
If I face consequences for ending my relationship with official Mormondom, then it is as God intends. I am at peace.
If you were sincere in those question you might list to BYUTV online on the discussions on the OT, NT, how the BOM, D&C,an the POGP which gives an in depth premortal existence understanding, also at present they have been playing the wk ends an In depth to Isaiah.
It is streaming so you can watch at your leisure!
Those discussion are usually on weeks days!
http://www.byutv.org/streaming/
If you are at peace, then Bravo! All things will work out for you!
A local bishop can exclude a church member from the temple, but that's about it, Shipps said. "They don't have any official way to control their members, except to say that they can go into or cannot go into the temple," Shipps said.
Actually, a member can be disfellowshipped for lesser offenses, which means that member cannot partake of the sacrament or participate in any worship services (such as speaking or saying prayers or answering questions in Sunday School, etc. They can still attend the services, as can excommunicated members).
Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said.
"Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call."
The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.
Mostly true. Women visit women (visiting teaching) and the men visit families (home teaching.) The High Priests are also in charge of the single, widowed, and divorced women in the ward.
Mormon services are not the raucous or musical affairs that other denominations celebrate.
Yep, pretty true. Guitars are frowned upon for Sacrament meeting. I do remember one meeting when I was growing up when a man from southern Utah sang "O Divine Redeemer" accompanied by his guitar with a twang. It was quite interesting. I think the musical tradition comes from the early days of the church, most had converted from Protestants or Methodists. I do know that Gladys Knight wants to liven up the music. :)
Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services. The church has a reputation for secrecy, but Shipps said it's not just for the sake of exclusion.
"A better way to say it is what goes on in the temple is sacred and therefore private, rather than secret," she said. "All temples are closed to anyone except those who the bishop recommends."
Mixed information here. Anyone is welcome to come to our worship services, weekly meetings, service projects, etc. It is the temple that only worthy members can enter. And like Professor Shipps says, it is because it is sacred and private.
Outreach also is an important part of the Mormon philosophy. Most men do two years of missionary work when they're around 19 years old, and unmarried women do 18 months.
Unmarried women go when they are 21, but it is not a requirement like it is for the worthy young men.
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Incorrect. Black people could join the LDS church, but men could not hold the priesthood. The revelation in 1978 was that all worthy males could hold the priesthood. See Official Declaration 2.
Thanks for posting the article. It was very informative and pretty even handed.
You are confusing rewards with salvation.
Oh what people drove you out CC?
is it not you who finally gave up hope?,
but than its not good
to put new wine in a sour bottle!
Here is a quote:
"Perhaps there is something else that we will learn as we perfect our bodies and our spirits in the times to come. You and I—what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were said by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.” This is a power available to us as we reach perfection and receive the experience and power to create, to organize, to control native elements. How limited we are now! We have no power to force the grass to grow, the plants to emerge, the seeds to develop......
..... And when our spirits receive our bodies, and through our faithfulness we are worthy to be crowned, we will then receive authority to produce both spirit and body. But these keys we cannot receive in the flesh.” (JD, 15:137.) Again, the powers of heavens.
Ensign » 1977 » May, Our Great Potential, President Spencer W. Kimball
Someday maybe the bottle will become renewed and sweeter...
It wasn’t you resty.
This is faultfinding..
...but it won’t clam the waters!
By whose authority? I call hogwash.
Thats not Biblical. Its just stuff someone made up.
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