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“Hail Goddess full of grace”
California Catholic Daily ^ | April 24, 2007

Posted on 04/25/2007 6:54:31 AM PDT by NYer

“WOW -- coming from RC tradition I thought I’d never return to the Rosary. But here it is and here SHE IS. Blessed be, Mairly.”

The “here” in this message, found on herchurch.org, is Ebenezer Lutheran Church in San Francisco. But the SHE is not the Mother of God. SHE is “God/dess.”

On Wednesdays at 7 p.m., Ebenezer opens its sanctuary for the “Christian Goddess Rosary.” The church says it offers “Goddess Rosary Beads” and that “prayers and suggested meditations will be on hand as well as incense, candles and bells.”

“The Goddess rosary is grounded in traditions of the Christian Church and the proclamation of the gospel which is a vision of release from bondage for a new creation,” says the church’s web site.

The Goddess Rosary page on herchurch.org says that though “God as Father plays an important role” in Christian tradition, its “exclusive emphasis... contributes to a limited understanding of God, an understanding that supports a domination structure that oppresses and subordinates women.” Jesus used “Abba” as a “revolutionary deconstruction of domination structures of his day in both religious and social institutions.” The modern task is to do the same with “Goddess.”

Ebenezer, however, does not want to eradicate masculine images of God but to balance them with feminine images to “confront the biblical texts, products of their day and cultures, for the blatant patriarchal biases and misogynist attitudes.” And herchurch.org cites three Catholic theologians in support this confrontation: Harvard’s Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, Fordham University’s Sister Elizabeth Johnson, and Rosemary Radford Ruether (who will lecture students in the course, “The History of God in Feminist Theological Discourse,” at LA’s Mount St. Mary’s College this spring.) Ruether calls the exclusive use of male imagery for God “idolatry.”

Herchurch.org offers a “Hail Goddess” prayer by feminist theologian Carol Christ, formerly of Harvard Divinity School but now director of the Ariadne Institute for Myth and Ritual in Greece. The prayer goes: “Hail Goddess full of grace. Blessed are you and blessed are all the fruits of your womb. For you are the MOTHER of us all. Hear us now and in all our needs. O blessed be, O blessed be. Amen.”

“I felt that I had stepped into a Presence, like a mother’s warm embrace,” wrote Dalyn Cook of Ebenezer’s Goddess Rosary. “The attendees were few in number, yet there was a sense of fullness in this welcoming space. I inhaled deeply the earthy scent of the incense, sending up delicate tendrils of smoke which curled around the altar in a nimbus visible against the warm rays of the evening sun filtering through the stained-glass windows....

“From the basket of rosaries, I took into my hand a strand of vibrantly-colored beads with a silver goddess icon in place of the traditional cross. The goddesses came in a variety of shapes and sizes, celebrating the beauty of the feminine form; I found reflections of my own figure in the full hips and Rubenesque curves of my goddess,” Cook wrote.


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: elca; goddess; hailmary; lillyendowment; lutheran; maryworship; rosary; sanfranciscovalues
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To: FormerLib; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; fortheDeclaration

It strikes me as more than a normal straw dog . . . a kind of specially and elaborately constructed straw dog.

Mary is lofted to a pseudo place of very near equality with Christ in a list of ways . . .

such as

FAULTY MARIOLOGY = FAULTY CHRISTOLOGY

YIELDING MARY = CHRIST

QUEEN OF HEAVEN

MOTHER OF US ALL

ASSUMED, PRESUMED, PRETENDED SINLESS

ROBBED OF HER OTHER CHILDREN

yet, claimed as equal to friends living on earth that one asks for prayer.

Which is it?

Is she worthy all this adoration and veneration or is she just one of the gals down the street that one asks for prayer?


341 posted on 04/28/2007 6:43:28 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: FormerLib

It matters not that you think the analogy silly.

It matters a LOT if Jesus thinks it quite fitting.


342 posted on 04/28/2007 6:46:50 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: FormerLib

I think most of us ask others to pray for us, especially those who are anointed for healing, but we don’t pray TO anyone but God in Jesus’ name.


343 posted on 04/28/2007 6:47:18 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Quix
My friends are not graduated from this life when I ask them to pray for me.

So you believe that none who have left this life are still alive in Christ?

344 posted on 04/28/2007 7:18:09 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Marysecretary
...but we don’t pray TO anyone but God in Jesus’ name.

Neither do we but we do ask the Saints to pray for us.

It is, above all, an affirmation of our faith in Christ's triumph over death.

345 posted on 04/28/2007 7:19:51 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib

Many are alive in Christ in Heaven.

And abiding by God’s wishes for their lives there and avoiding tampering with the gulf GOD fixed between there and here.

Resisting God’s ways and boundaries is not a good way to win HIS favor.


346 posted on 04/28/2007 7:22:48 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: FormerLib

So, tell me . . .

YOU’VE NEVER

heard an RC talk about praying

TO Mary

or

TO Joseph???


347 posted on 04/28/2007 7:24:02 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: NYer
Yeah, "herchurch" has been around for awhile now. And the (ELCA)Lutheran hierarchy does absolutely nothing about it even though it is well-known to them. Like so many of the go-alongs in the ECUSA, they simply refuse to deal with evil in their midst. Why I no longer identify myself as a Lutheran.
348 posted on 04/28/2007 7:32:43 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Quix

Amen to your post. 1Tim.2:5, Heb.7:25


349 posted on 04/29/2007 5:51:58 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: Quix
So, tell me . . . YOU’VE NEVER heard an RC talk about praying TO Mary or TO Joseph???

So, tell me...

You've never actually listened to the prayer where they ask Mary to pray for them?

Why is your heart so hardened toward another Christian asking for a loved one to pray for them?

350 posted on 04/29/2007 6:21:37 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: fortheDeclaration

Thanks thanks and for the Scriptures.


351 posted on 04/29/2007 7:52:13 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: FormerLib

I’ll take the lack of an answer as confirmation that you

HAVE HEARD RC’s mentioning or talking about or actually PRAYING

TO MARY.

Which kind of neuters the rest of the rationalizations.

BTW, my heart is not hardened at all—particularly not toward other believers.

Else I wouldn’t try so hard to warn about the seriousness with which God treats idolatry. And even then, I don’t do so from a lofty place. We all face hazards in that regard.


352 posted on 04/29/2007 7:54:28 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
What Scripture says:
Romans 8 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God


What one gets when stepping away from what Scripture says:

"Uh, excuse me, Saint Penelope Eugenia, its me, Blogger. And, I'm on the earth. Blogger. B-L-O-G-G-E-R. Yeah. I can wait. Nice Muzac. Oh, that's the heavenly choir? Cool. I really like - huh? Oh, what is my request? Oh, okay. Well, I know that I don't have any rights to ask this, but could you ask Saint Andre to ask Saint Joseph to talk to the blessed mother to see if she could talk to her Son and ask him to ask my Father to answer this prayer? What? Yeah, I'll take a ticket and wait in line. Sure wish that they were all Omniscient and omnipresent..."

What Scripture says:
Hebrews 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


What one gets when one steps away from Scripture:

"Boldly approach the throne? Oh! I can't do that! Why, why, God won't hear me. He's too busy. But, if I asked a really really good person.... like a super saint. Oh yeah, I know all have sinned. Yes, and I know there is none that doeth good. But, none can't really mean none. I mean, there have to be some folks who by virtue of the good lives they have led have a direct connect to God. Right? See, this is the plan. I know I can't go to God. I mean, I'm no saint. But, I have to ask a friend who is closer to God and draw on the treasury of saints' works and maybe even pull in Mary to make sure that God hears what I'm praying. After all, he's far too busy to hear me. I can get a Supersaint to take a message and maybe, well, it's worth a shot."

What Scripture says: Luke 11 1And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father...


We have so many privileges as Christians. Privileges that Christ died for. It befuddles me that people miss that we don't have to go through priests or saints, but have a direct connection ourselves. We are truly the children of God. And what Father makes a child have to use some other human being to send messages to Him? God the Father sent His Son Jesus to reconcile man's relationship to Himself. The system that says we have to use Saints or Mary or anything else leaves the job only partially done and ignores Jesus's very words in Scripture. He instructs NOBODY to pray TO Saints. He asks us, on the earth, to intercede for one another, but even there that intercession is done as a direct connection with God. Nowhere do you find an example in Scripture that our intercession for one another is to extend to another realm. There is simply no other mediator between God and man than the Son of God Himself. Further, only God is omniscient and omnipotent. Only God can hear our prayers outside of this earth realm.
353 posted on 04/29/2007 11:37:33 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Quix

Memorare
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known
That any one who fled to your* protection...O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions,
But in your clemency hear and answer me. Amen.

We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God;
Despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers,

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, tat never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored you help or sought your intercession, was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to you, O virgin of virgins, my Mother; to you I come, before you stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

Immaculate Virgin Mary, mother of our Lord Jesus Christ and out Mother, penetrated with the most lively confidence in your all-powerful and never-failing intercession, manifested so often through the Miraculous Medal, we your loving and trustful children implore you to obtain for us the graces and favors we ask during this Novena, if they be beneficial to our immortal souls, and the souls for which we pray...

(Mention your request).

You know, Mary, how often our souls have been the sanctuaries of your Son Who hates iniquity. Obtain for us then a deep hatred of sin and that purity of heart which will attach us to God alone so that out every thought, word and deed may tend to His greater glory. Obtain for us also a spirit of prayer and self-denial that we may recover by penance what we have lost by sin and at length attain to that blessed abode where you are the
Queen of Angels and of Men. Amen.

O Mary, conceived without sin,
pray for us who have recourse to thee.
(3 times)

http://www.memorare.com/mary/mm.html

Glorious St. Anthony of Padua, you renounced every earthly ambition when yet very young. You gave yourself wholly and perpetually to God’s service. Hence, I beg of you to secure for me the means to respond readily to God’s purpose for me. Grant me the favor I now seek if it is God’s will. Please do not forget the prayers and merits of our Franciscan missionaires, and the many needs of their people. http://www.scborromeo.org/prayers/anthony2.htm

Oh, St Joseph, whose protection is so great, so strong,
so prompt before the throne of God,
I place in you all my interest and desires.
Oh, St Joseph, do assist me by your powerful intercession,
and obtain for me from your divine Son
all spiritual blessings, through Jesus Christ, out Lord.
So that, having engages here below your heavenly power,
I may offer my thanksgiving and homage to the most loving of Fathers.

Oh, St Joseph, I never weary contemplating you,

http://www.scborromeo.org/prayers/joseph4.htm

O HOLY PATRONESS of those in need, St. Rita, whose pleadings before thy Divine Lord are almost irresistible, who for thy lavish-ness in granting favors hast been called the Ad-vocate of the Hopeless and even of the Impossible; St. Rita, so humble, so pure, so mortified, so patient and of such compassionate love for thy Crucified Jesus that thou couldst obtain from Him whatsoever thou askest, on account of which all confidently have recourse to thee, expecting, if not always relief, at least comfort; be propitious to our petition, showing thy power with God on behalf of thy suppliant; be lavish to us, as thou hast been in so many wonderful cases, for the greater glory of God, for the spread-ing of thine own devotion, and for the consola-tion of those who trust in thee. We promise, if our petition is granted, to glorify thee by making known thy favor, to bless and sing thy praises forever. Relying then upon thy merits and power before the Sacred Heart of Jesus, we pray thee grant that (here mention your request).

http://www.scborromeo.org/prayers/rita.htm

I could go on and on.


354 posted on 04/29/2007 11:49:07 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: steve8714
The Catholic rosary has beads, their rosary has beads...

Coincidence? I think not.




[cue ominous music ...]

355 posted on 04/29/2007 2:42:37 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: FormerLib

You can ask anyone you want I guess, but only God, through His Son, Jesus Christ can answer prayer. The items I read in the newspaper regarding Mary and praying to her for what the person needs are heresy.


356 posted on 04/29/2007 2:53:35 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Quix

How about to St. Anthony, the finder of lost stuff?


357 posted on 04/29/2007 2:54:12 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Blogger; All; Dr. Eckleburg; Marysecretary; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; fortheDeclaration; Cvengr; ...
Obtain for us then a deep hatred of sin and that purity of heart which will attach us to God alone so that out every thought, word and deed may tend to His greater glory.

INDEED. OBTAIN FOR US is NOT the sort of thing one asks the neighbor to do when asking for their prayers.

Am reading a surprisingly good book: Are We Living in the END TIMES? by Tim LaHaye a & Jerry B Jenkins. They have some interesting history. As usual, bold colored emphases are mine:

pp172-175
Every false religion in the world can be traced back to Babylon. Even before its citizens tried to build the Tower of Babel, Satan had made that city his headquarters and introduced idolatry, the first secret societies, and many of the religious practices that continue to the present day. These eventually appeared as the foundational teachings for Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Gaia worship, and a host of other cultic systems summed up in the Bible as "Mystery Babylon." These false religions consistently violate the first four commandments, those that concern man and his relationship to God ("You shall not worship other gods!" "Make no graven images, nor worship them or serve them!" "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain!" "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy!"; see Exodus 20). In short all pagan religions depend on the worship of images, or as some call them, "aids to worship."

If Babylon is the mother of all false religions and Jerusalem is the mother of true faith (since Jesus Christ was crucified, buried, and resurrected there), then Rome is the mother of an unholy mixture of the two. One of the things that impresses tourists visiting that city is its incredible religious history. It existed long before the Romans rose to power and today displays the ruins of many pagan religions, all of them received from Babylon. By the time Paul and other Christians got to Rome, the city had become not only the capital of a world empire--thus the center of civilization and the most important city in the world,--but also the center of pagan "Mystery Babylon" Religion. Satan had moved his spiritual headquarters from Babylon to Rome even before the birth of Christ.

When Constantine made his "confession of faith" in the fourth century (if indeed that is what it was), he turned over to the Christian leaders the temples of the pagans that, according to the official tour books of Rome, included:

The Greek divinities, Athena, that had become Minerva, Ares became Mars, Aphrodite became Venus. Apollo retained its Greek name, thus the Greek god of mythology became the Roman Olympus. The temple of Isis [straight from Babylon] was there, along with the Egyptian Campus Martius, many oriental divinities including Mithras, the Persian God of the Sun.2

The city of Rome around A.D. 320 was filled with temples, idols, and shrines to almost every god in the pantheon of pagan religions. Turning these temples over to the Christians proved to be the worst thing Constaand the worst thing to happen to the early church. It is said that the church retained much of the statuary in the pagan temples; it simply rededicated them to Christianity, then chiseled off the names of the pagan deities and replaced them with the names of the apostles, Jesus, and Mary. Gradually the pagan practices and teachings of Babylong began to worm their way into Christianity. These included prayers for the dead; making the sign of the cross, worship of saints and angels, instituting the mass, and worship of Mary--which in the church of Rome was followed by prayers directed TO MARY, leading to the 1950 doctrine of her assumption into heaven and in 1965 to the proclamation that Mary was the "Mother of the Church."3

As pagan teachings increased, biblical authority decreased. Just over one hundred years after Constantine, the brilliant Augustine came along with his brand of Greek humanism and introduced "man's wisdom" along with "God's wisdom," further paving the way for more pagan thought and practice. Although he did not intend it, his spiritualizing of Scripture eventually removed the Bible as the sole source of authority for correct doctrine. At the same time, the Scriptures were kept locked up in monsateries and museums, leaving Christians defenseless against the invasion of pagan and humanistic thought and practice. Consequently, the Dark Ages prevailed, and the Church of Rome became more pagan than Christian."

Had it not been for Wycliffe, Tyndale, and other valiant pre-Protestant heroes of the faith, Chritianity would have been destroyed, and Satan's Babylonian mysticism would have prevailed, effectively destroying true Christianity. Instead, because of the courageous efforts of a few Christian scholars--some within the [Roman] Catholic church itself, including many priests and bishops who disapproved of the infusion of pagan doctrine and practice, along with many splinter groups like the Moravians and Waldensians, who carefully adhered to the teachings of Scripture--the sixteenth century spawned the Protestant Reformation. . . . the Reformers called Christianity back to the Bible and at the same time condemned many of Rome's pagan practices, including selling indulgences, teaching the doctrine of purgatory, and praying to Mary.

In the Middle Ages and in premodern times true believers were subjected to martyrdom on an incredible scale. It is estimated that as many as 40 million persons were killed during that period when Babylonian mysticism controlled the church.

France, the most advanced bountry of the seventeenth century, is an example of the effects of Babylon on the seven-hilled city of Rome. Consider how the pope and [Roman] Catholic authorities worked with the [Roman] Catholic kings of France to produce the St. Bartholomew Square massacre, in which forth thousand born-again Christians were killed in a single day. That was followed by other massacres that eliminated up to 4 million huguenots who would be called evangelical Christians if they were living today.

[Qx paragraphing] Their destruction so angered skeptics like Voltaire and Rousseau that they became anti-Christian thinkers and began to propagate an atheistic socialism born out of French skepticism, which ultimately merged with German rationalism. Today their intellectual descendants champion a philosophy called "secular humanism."

However much we may agree with Pope Paul II on his stand against aborton, homosexuality, and other aspects of morality, we must oppose his promotion of unity among Christ-denying religions of the world. In 1986 he convened a conference for 130 religious leaders of the world in Iccese, Italy, to "pray for world peace." In attendance were Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, pantheists, the Dalai Lama, and a host of others who reject Jesus Christ. Who could they all pray to? They don't agree on who (or even what) God is or in whose name we should pray. Of one thing we are certain: You can't reject or ignore God's Son and still expect to have your prayers answered.

I encourage interested readers to get the book. It is well worth the time. I hope to excerpt some other moving parts in the next week or 3.
358 posted on 04/29/2007 5:13:02 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Blogger

Excellent post.

Especially:

“Uh, excuse me, Saint Penelope Eugenia, its me, Blogger. And, I’m on the earth. Blogger. B-L-O-G-G-E-R. Yeah. I can wait. Nice Muzac. Oh, that’s the heavenly choir? Cool. I really like - huh? Oh, what is my request? Oh, okay. Well, I know that I don’t have any rights to ask this, but could you ask Saint Andre to ask Saint Joseph to talk to the blessed mother to see if she could talk to her Son and ask him to ask my Father to answer this prayer? What? Yeah, I’ll take a ticket and wait in line. Sure wish that they were all Omniscient and omnipresent...”


359 posted on 04/29/2007 5:15:07 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary

I don’t bother Anthony.

He’s, hopefully, still trying to get used to Heaven.

I just ask Holy Spirit.


360 posted on 04/29/2007 5:16:19 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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