Mary, Mother of God

Catholic.com ^ | 2005 | Catholic Answers

[MarkBsnr]

Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension of what this particular title of Mary signifies, and what the Protestant Reformers had to say regarding this doctrine.

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism,

[annalex]

Mary did not create God

The Council of Ephesus and the Magisterium do not teach that she did.

[Pyro7480]

But, where in the Bible do you find the concept of asking dead friends and relatives, plus saints and Mary to interceed for you? I doubt you will find any scripture that encourage this practice, or even indicates that it is possible for you to do so.

It's in the second book of Macabees, which was expunged from most "Reformist" Bibles.

[MarkBsnr]

::BTW: Please explain, “Hail Mary, Queen of Heaven”. Thanks :)::

There is an elegant Scriptural defense at http://www.users.qwest.net/~dkturner/maryqueen.html

It uses Scriptures from Old and New Testaments right through to Revelation.

It is much too long to post here, so I would pray that you would go there and see for yourself.

[MarkBsnr]

:: I assume you were sincere in attempting to engage Protestants in a dialog about Mary being the “Mother of God”. Still, you couldn’t have picked a worse article to start things off. Good luck keeping your thread civil - you’re going to need it. ::

Thanks, I probably will.

[annalex]

where in the Bible do you find the concept of asking dead friends and relatives, plus saints and Mary to interceed for you?

Please read Communion of Saints. It may not be the scripture that you readily remember, or that you would interpret yourself in the same way, but scripture it is. If you still have questions, I'll be happy to answer after the Holy Week.

[Scotswife]

In the book of revelations the saints in heaven are interceding to God on behalf of those on earth.

Their prayers are portrayed as incense before the altar of God.

If I went to a medium and tried to “contact” a dead relative...who knows what type of spirit I am communicating with? A demon? A figment of the imagination?

I do not “communicate” with the dead in that I try to conjure them up as King Saul did.
we do not hold seances - we do not ask for fortunes or future-telling.
who knows what spirit may turn up?

Simply asking a soul in heaven for intercessory prayer violates nothing and encourages the strenthening of the Church which we see in revelations - the suffering on earth being prayed for by the triumphant souls in heaven.

We are not seeking any “return” communication - although sometimes that happens as a blessing.

If I ask the mother of Jesus to pray to her Son for me - where is the opportunity for Satan to impersonate Mary before Christ? Certainly Christ knows Satan when He sees him.

I’m not asking Mary to come sit with me for conversation.
If she did there is the possibility it could be her - or an impersonator - but that is another discussion I suppose :)

[MarkBsnr]

Ahem.

This thread has been uncommonly civil and greatly on track. I’d really like to continue this. Maybe we could limit the topic drift until we kinda wind down and then start in on DungeonMaster’s next great Catholic Adventure.

[William Terrell]

You built your children's' bodies. That is observable, medical fact and not subject to conjecture. Because you don't know how you did it makes no difference to the fact it was done. You had to impregnate an egg by conscious and guided choice to engage the mechanism of body building.

You don't know how your medulla oblongata keeps your heart beating, either, but it does. God created the whole mechanism; we just use it. But we do use it according to our choices, whether in a Godly or unGodly manner.

Remember, God created the Earthly mode of making the vehicle of the soul. You folks seem to choke on the notion that He would have used His own created mechanism to make a material vehicle for His Son.

Mary likewise built Jesus' body so He could walk among us. A man is a body and a soul. The body dies and the soul is freed to its destination. The two are separate existences.

What did Elizabeth call Mary? What did Jesus call Mary?

Elizabeth called blessed because God selected her to build the body of Jesus. Jesus called her mother because she built His body and raised Him. And so. . .?

I call most of what the Catholic church teaches absurd. If that makes me a jerk, I'll have a T-shirt made.

Christ Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except by Him. Mary simply built His Earthly vehicle, and for such she rates praise that God chose her as one of the lineage of David. But Jesus is the point, with nothing beyond it.

Allow me to be a jerk again. You Catholics need to get out more. Read the Bible and think about what it says and the implications instead of swallowing what the magisterium says whole.

[Always Right]

So maybe we are being a bit lazy where we could say...”Mary mother of God, 2nd person of the Holy Trinity.

Why not just leave it as Mother of Jesus or Mother of Lord?

[Scotswife]

You ARE STILL arguing fact that are not in dispute!!!

A mother is a mother is a mother...

when she bears a child in her womb, she is a mother to that child.

Elizabeth called her “mother of my Lord”. Jesus called her mother. And yet you have a heart attack when catholics call her mother.

“Mary likewise built Jesus’ body so He could walk among us. A man is a body and a soul. The body dies and the soul is freed to its destination. The two are separate existences.”

And yet, even after death when that soul leaves the body...the identity of the MOTHER of that soul has not changed.
I have a daughter in heaven. I was her mother on earth - I am still her mother now. Why?
Because I bore her in my womb and gave birth to her.

Besides...Jesus’s body and soul are still united and exist in his glorified body.
Mary is his mother.
Why?
Because she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and the Word was made flesh in her womb. She carried Him in her womb and gave birth to Him.
Mary is His mother.

“I call most of what the Catholic church teaches absurd. If that makes me a jerk, I’ll have a T-shirt made.”

You are a jerk because you are rude and you assume that those who don’t interpret scripture the same as you must not read scripture at all. You assume too much, and in your arrogance you are insulting.

“Allow me to be a jerk again. You Catholics need to get out more. Read the Bible and think about what it says and the implications instead of swallowing what the magisterium says whole”

Happy? Yes...very jerky of you. Again..arrogant and insulting.
I find jerks to be a waste of time so I won’t be bothering with you anymore.
Adios.

[Scotswife]

“Why not just leave it as Mother of Jesus or Mother of Lord?”

And the difference would be....?

[Pyro7480]

You know, something told me, someone would site a passage not found in the 66 books of the Bible recognised by protestants.

Not all Christians recognize the Protestant version of the Bible.

[lastchance]

If you are not familiar with the Nestorian heresy you will not be familiar with the reason for the title Theotokos.
Christ is fully human and fully divine. “ The Divine Jesus entered the human body Mary gave birth to.” This is a complete misunderstandin of the incarnation. And I don’t know of any orthodox Protestant who holds to this view.

[ThomasThomas]

32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”

33”Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.

34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

I have my answer, what do you do with these verse?

[MarkBsnr]

I’m not sure that I understand what you’re saying here.