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To: topcat54

Topcat, here is where we have a rub. You have a tendency to too broadly symbolize what the text is saying to try to make it fit your soteriology. Zechariah 12-14 is very specific. It speaks of Jerusalem being encompassed about. It speaks of her spoil being divided in her midst. It also speaks of Jesus coming to fight for her and literally splitting the mount of olives. It is all set in Israel. And, I do not see how any of it was accomplished at His first coming. The vast majority of Jews are still lost and His kingdom was to be earthly in addition to Heavenly as we see in other Scriptures.


396 posted on 04/07/2007 5:36:03 PM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Topcat, here is where we have a rub. You have a tendency to too broadly symbolize what the text is saying to try to make it fit your soteriology.

"My soteriology"?? I don't know what you mean. Jesus Christ is the focus of the entire Scripture. Is He not? All of the OT pointed forward to His coming. All the NT speaks of what He has accomplised in bring salvation to His people, Jews and gentiles, just as Abraham was promised.

Zechariah 12-14 is very specific.

Zechariah was a prophet and his words reflect prophetic forms of speech. There are many images and symbols in the prophecies.

Let's look at some of the language, and you tell me what it means.

"'In that day,' says the Lord, 'I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.'" (12:4)

Horses and riders and Judah. Sounds like it could fit with the 1st century AD. So you think it fits better far in the future when armies no longer use horses? When "Judah" no longer exists?

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;" (12:10-12)

Does ths not sound like the mourning of Jerusalem and Judah when the nations came up against it, the days of vengeance mentioned in Luke 21?

"In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness." (13:1)

Does this not speak of the Lord Jesus, the true foundation of life, who brought salvation to His people so the renmant was saved?

"It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, 'You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the name of the Lord.' And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies." (13:3)

The true Prophet has come, The Lord Jesus Christ. All other prophets will be put to shame. We are not to go after them.

"'Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,' Says the Lord of hosts. 'Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.'" (13:7)

We know that this was fulilled at Christ's coming (Matt. 26:31)

"For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city." (14:1)

Anyone familiar with the history of AD70 realizes this is an accurate description of the great desolation that fell upon the city.

"And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur." (14:8)

Read John 4 and Jesus' description of living waters, esp. v. 14.

"In that day 'HOLINESS TO THE LORD' shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar." (14:20)

Bells and horses. fulfilled or future?

I could go on. I realize you do not find this satisfying, and I also realize that you have somehat of an advantage because in your system everything is still in the future so you can just say all will happen precisely as it is written, no matter how anachronistic it sounds (horses and riders, etc). That's really not an answer as much as an excuse for not having to do any interpretation of the text.

But the fact remains that there is no confirmation anywhere in the NT that these events are still to be fulfilled far, far in the future from the 1st century.

Before you start in with all the charges, give us your view and tell us which portion of this prophecy speaks of Jesus first coming only.

402 posted on 04/07/2007 7:10:28 PM PDT by topcat54
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