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Topcat, here is where we have a rub. You have a tendency to too broadly symbolize what the text is saying to try to make it fit your soteriology.

Zechariah 12-14 is very specific.

Zechariah was a prophet and his words reflect prophetic forms of speech. There are many images and symbols in the prophecies.

Let's look at some of the language, and you tell me what it means.

"'In that day,' says the Lord, 'I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.'" (12:4)

Horses and riders and Judah. Sounds like it could fit with the 1st century AD. So you think it fits better far in the future when armies no longer use horses? When "Judah" no longer exists?

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;" (12:10-12)

Does ths not sound like the mourning of Jerusalem and Judah when the nations came up against it, the days of vengeance mentioned in Luke 21?

"In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness." (13:1)

Does this not speak of the Lord Jesus, the true foundation of life, who brought salvation to His people so the renmant was saved?

"It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, 'You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the name of the Lord.' And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies." (13:3)

The true Prophet has come, The Lord Jesus Christ. All other prophets will be put to shame. We are not to go after them.

"'Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,' Says the Lord of hosts. 'Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.'" (13:7)

We know that this was fulilled at Christ's coming (Matt. 26:31)

"For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city." (14:1)

Anyone familiar with the history of AD70 realizes this is an accurate description of the great desolation that fell upon the city.

"And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur." (14:8)

Read John 4 and Jesus' description of living waters, esp. v. 14.

"In that day 'HOLINESS TO THE LORD' shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar." (14:20)

Bells and horses. fulfilled or future?

I could go on. I realize you do not find this satisfying, and I also realize that you have somehat of an advantage because in your system everything is still in the future so you can just say all will happen precisely as it is written, no matter how anachronistic it sounds (horses and riders, etc). That's really not an answer as much as an excuse for not having to do any interpretation of the text.

But the fact remains that there is no confirmation anywhere in the NT that these events are still to be fulfilled far, far in the future from the 1st century.

Before you start in with all the charges, give us your view and tell us which portion of this prophecy speaks of Jesus first coming only.

"My soteriology"?? I don't know what you mean. Jesus Christ is the focus of the entire Scripture. Is He not? All of the OT pointed forward to His coming. All the NT speaks of what He has accomplised in bring salvation to His people, Jews and gentiles, just as Abraham was promised.
Your soteriology specifically includes the provision that all promises made the the Jews are null and void with their rejection of Christ at His first coming. The only way they can participate in any promises hereafter are the supposed new ones that they get when they become Christians. But all that stuff about them getting land (which we do not tie to soteriology but you do), is moot. As such, Zechariah 12-14 is once again spiritualized and made to be symbolic when it is not necessary to do so.

Zechariah was a prophet and his words reflect prophetic forms of speech. There are many images and symbols in the prophecies.

Let's look at some of the language, and you tell me what it means.

"'In that day,' says the Lord, 'I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.'" (12:4)
Has it ever occurred to you that the world in the tribulation will literally be Hell on earth? Half of the population will be dead. Disaster everywhere. Ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, horseback may be the only way they can get around? Today, they still use horseback in certain armies, particularly when you are dealing with certain terrain. It is only the voice of your particular eschatological and soteriological reference that colors this passage symbolic.

Horses and riders and Judah. Sounds like it could fit with the 1st century AD. So you think it fits better far in the future when armies no longer use horses? When "Judah" no longer exists?
First, do not twist the text. It says the house of Judah. The house of Judah most certainly does exist. The people of Judah are alive today. The fact that we don't know who most of them are does not mean that God doesn't. Second, as stated above, NOTHING necessitates that horses will not be in use. Third, no the passage doesn't fit the 1st century at all. Your soteriology and eschatology place it there, but even in that aspect such a view fails - for the passage goes on to say that Jesus will defend Jerusalem. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD as you are fond of pointing out. Zechariah 12-14 has NOTHING to do with 70 AD.

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;" (12:10-12)

Does ths not sound like the mourning of Jerusalem and Judah when the nations came up against it, the days of vengeance mentioned in Luke 21?
Did the people of Jerusalem mourn for Christ then? No. Again, the passage does not fit 70 AD. No matter how much you try to force it into the passage.

"In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness." (13:1)

Does this not speak of the Lord Jesus, the true foundation of life, who brought salvation to His people so the renmant was saved?
It speaks of the grace of God as shown the the salvation of Christ. But note, it speaks of the inhabitants of Jerusalem as well. Specific place. The verse you skipped which follows reads " 2And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land." To date, idols are still in the land. In the least you have Islam. This prophecy has never been fulfilled. And note, it revolves around what is happening in the land of Israel.

"It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, 'You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the name of the Lord.' And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies." (13:3)

The true Prophet has come, The Lord Jesus Christ. All other prophets will be put to shame. We are not to go after them.
Now you go skipping verses again. Lets look at what it really says and the reason they are saying it.

3And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
True, the prophets prophecy no more. Why? Because they are ashamed of their old prophecies, which were deceptions, because now they are face to face with the one whom they have pierced. Israel has exhibited no such recognition of Christ to this day. They didn't do it in 70 AD. They haven't done it yet. They will do it in the future.

"'Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,' Says the Lord of hosts. 'Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.'" (13:7)

We know that this was fulilled at Christ's coming (Matt. 26:31)

"For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city." (14:1)

Anyone familiar with the history of AD70 realizes this is an accurate description of the great desolation that fell upon the city.
No, it isn't. The nations were not to battle against Jerusalem. Rome was. The city did not go into captivity. It was destroyed. It is not an accurate description of what happened in 70 AD.

"And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur." (14:8)

Read John 4 and Jesus' description of living waters, esp. v. 14.
Talk about jumping around. First we are in 70 AD. Now we are back with Jesus' description of Himself to the woman at Samaria. Complete with a geographical and calendrical description.

"In that day 'HOLINESS TO THE LORD' shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar." (14:20)

Bells and horses. fulfilled or future?
Jesus comes back on a white horse. Fulfilled or future?

I could go on. I realize you do not find this satisfying, and I also realize that you have somehat of an advantage because in your system everything is still in the future so you can just say all will happen precisely as it is written, no matter how anachronistic it sounds (horses and riders, etc). That's really not an answer as much as an excuse for not having to do any interpretation of the text.

No, it is letting the text interpret itself. It is going with the most natural meaning of the text and allowing God to fulfill His prophecies exactly as He said they would occur rather than adopting an allegorical stance where allegory is not required. God said that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. He was. God said he would be from the line of David. He was. God said he would be of the tribe of Judah. He was. God said he would be crucified. He was. God said He would be rejected by His own. He was. Prophecies tend to not be allegorical. They tend to have literal fulfillments. I believe that God had the prophets write what He planned to do and will fulfill these prophecies just as He said He would.

But the fact remains that there is no confirmation anywhere in the NT that these events are still to be fulfilled far, far in the future from the 1st century.
Argument from silence. Most of the prophecy was still future when the writers were writing their epistles and gospels. John was told in 90 AD to "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." We can argue that about what parts of Revelation fall into what categories, but based upon the precise fulfillment of Scripture in the past I expect the prophecies of the Old and New Testaments to be precisely fulfilled in the future as well. They have not bee precisely fulfilled to date.

Before you start in with all the charges, give us your view and tell us which portion of this prophecy speaks of Jesus first coming only.
None of it took place in the 1st century. It is all future. As to my view on it, I have discussed what I believe Zechariah 12-14 means in the Zionism thread. I will not discuss it any more. Repeating myself will merit nothing.

I was waiting for a response to my post #402 about Zechariah 12-14, but wanted to give you something else to consider.

In Zech. 14:4, "And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south."

Some folks see this as a prophecy yet to be literally fulfilled at Christ's second coming. They say the language is so clear that it cannot be spiritualized.

But consider Luke 3:3-6:

"And [John] went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight. Every valley shall be filled And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough ways smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God." ' "

Now, consider the words of Isaiah quoted here and compare them in their style of language to Zech. 14. Isaiah prophesized about what sounds like great upheavals in the physical earth as the herald of Messiah was to appear. Should one have expected the appearance of John to be accompanied by a massive public works program in the 1st century with tons of earth being relocated from the high mountains to the deepest valleys? Perhaps some folks thought that way. In fact I’m sure it got some of the more carnal minded Jews in trouble with recognizing the Messiah.

But, nevertheless, we are told the prophecy was fulfilled. Not in the way any literalist would have us believe, but it was fulfilled, as Luke confirms.

Now, I submit that verses like Zech. 14:4 are to be taken in much the same way. The prophecy was fulfilled by Christ just as it was intended. The cleaving of the mountain was for the purpose of the salvation of the people (v. 5). It was done in exactly the same was as the “mountain and hills were brought low” in Isaiah’s prophecy. It was done by the preaching of the good news, the gospel of Christ’s kingdom come near to the world for the salvation of His people.

Next time you object that a prophecy has not been “literally” fulfilled, remember Luke 3:3-6.