Replies

" My conversations in this forum with people who think it's important to predict the future "

Daniel though so...

Daniel 9:2
In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

"In both cases, the soundness or completeness of my Christian faith is questioned, since I don't share that passion."

That is called "projection" I believe. (Side note: is the soundness and completeness of your faith now really beyond question?)

"In both cases, the passion appears disproportionate. Given the massive centrality of what God did for us in the Lord Jesus Christ, why is there so much excitement about the sideshow, the distraction, the diversion?"

Over 50% of Scripture is prophetic in nature. 50% of what God has to say to us is put in terms of prophesy. Hard to miss that point.

"In both cases, speaking as a Biblical Christian of the Reformed persuasion, the other party's hobby horse has that reek of sulfur."

Sadly, in my experience, it is Calvinism that is a hobby horse for many. Many Calvinist I speak to have little to say about Jesus Christ - or do so as an afterthought. At first opportunity they will turn the topic to Calvinism. For some it seems to be an idol named Theology.

"We know that Satan desperately longs to see himself portrayed as the winner within history, despite the work of Christ on Calvary, the resurrection, the enthronement, etc. Whose interests are served when Christians eagerly look for and tout and loudly celebrate tokens or evidences of demonic progress?"

Because Jesus TOLD us to.

Luke 21:28
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

"I marvel at the processor cycles my dear fellow saints squander on those dead ends."

There are many who go too far with prophesy - to the point that it eclipses the glory of Christ. But you seem desirous of dismissing the whole topic altogether. In that, you are discarding something that God has given to His people. You may see no need for it - but you are flourishing in a time of ease. Prophetic literature is, in one sense, primarily for the benefit and aid of fellow Christians who are suffering persecution. It is God's lifeline to then to help them make it through situations that you and I probably know nothing about.

Paul SPECIFICALLY stated this when he told the Thessalonians...

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Winners and lovers shape the future.
Whiners and losers try to predict it.

This sound like some sort of repackaged, "christianized" humanism. I don't care how much of a lover you may be, you can shape nothing. To call those who search the Scriptures "whiners and loosers" is to insult the very prophets who wrote the Scriptures...

"Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look."

Daniel thought so...

Yes, but I'm not Daniel. Hey, I've even experienced the prophetic anointing -- which applies a facet of eternal etruth to present circumstances with a vivid word picture, but does not venture to predict the future. (Ironically, the Scofield flavor of dispensationalism is hostile to the charismatic movement.)

(Side note: is the soundness and completeness of your faith now really beyond question?)

Nope. That's why I appreciate your detailed response, and your willingness to stay in the conversation.

Over 50% of Scripture is prophetic in nature. 50% of what God has to say to us is put in terms of prophesy. Hard to miss that point.

Apart from the final resurrection on the Last Day, the Bible is a book of fulfilled prophecies. Studying God's dealings with man in ages past helps us discern patterns in human affairs today. For example, God is still allergic to towers of Babel, still taking down empires that defy him. Do you remember how the Soviet Empire was the Red Beast destined to rule the world? That may have been before your time .... After the wall came down, rather than making the heavens ring with shouts of praise, the fortune tellers/doomsayers immediately began scurrying around looking for other antichrist candidates to cower before.

Sadly, in my experience, it is Calvinism that is a hobby horse for many. Many Calvinist I speak to have little to say about Jesus Christ - or do so as an afterthought. At first opportunity they will turn the topic to Calvinism. For some it seems to be an idol named Theology.

Sadly, I am forced to agree. The first Calvinist I ever encountered was an evidently demonized young woman who entered an informal gathering of young Christians and seekers. Oblivious to the audience, and the eternal destinies in the balance, she sought with vigorous arguments to compel us to worship her doctrine. The spirit driving her strove to counter the Spirit of Jesus, which yearned towards the seekers that night. I think this one Calvinist delayed my embrace of the Reformed message for a decade.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The "this generation" Jesus spoke OF was the "this generation" Jesus spoke TO.

There are many who go too far with prophesy - to the point that it eclipses the glory of Christ. But you seem desirous of dismissing the whole topic altogether. In that, you are discarding something that God has given to His people. You may see no need for it - but you are flourishing in a time of ease. Prophetic literature is, in one sense, primarily for the benefit and aid of fellow Christians who are suffering persecution. It is God's lifeline to then to help them make it through situations that you and I probably know nothing about.

God's record of FULFILLED prophecy encourages us today to trust Him despite what the newspapers say.

This sound like some sort of repackaged, "christianized" humanism. I don't care how much of a lover you may be, you can shape nothing.

May God grant that your adult daughter will take you out for lunch and formally thank you for raising her the way you did. Godly children are hardly "nothing."

To call those who search the Scriptures "whiners and loosers" is to insult the very prophets who wrote the Scriptures...

Again, it depends on why they are "searching." The JWs, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals all "search the scriptures." The Pharisees were busy "searching the scriptures," and blind to the Messiah standing right in front of them. Granted, God's Word nourishes our soul. (Folks who depend on the KJV for spiritual nurture like to have archaic, and eat it, too.) However, we are not here to be entertained. We have callings to pursue for His glory. His Word is the user's manual for the universe. The "bluejacket's manual" that explains our positions and duties to us.

Thanks for a lengthy and thoughtful and irenic post. May the gracious spirit you demonstrated there reap a harvest of godliness in the many decades and generations to come!