Posted on 03/30/2007 11:03:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
Sorry, I should have pinged you to 116.
By the grace of God alone. Aren't we fortunate, Alex, to know that the Holy Spirit is indeed leading our walk home?
I suspect the spirit "leading" someone to post #88 is not the Holy Spirit.
The approach of comparing verse to verse has given the world millions of different interpretations of Scripture, as well as muddying the message and garbling its contents. Christ commanded Peter and the Apostles to go to the world baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. He certainly didn't say that anyone who happened to be standing by should do it as well. Therefore, one must be trained to do so.
He also told them that they had the power to forgive or to not forgive sins. He certainly didn't say that at some point in time that they couldn't do it anymore, so there is no reason to think that that practice stopped. But again one must be trained to do so.
We have the story of the eunuch and also the words of Peter that people were not to read scripture without proper training. One must be trained in order to provide the training.
Our trained people are labeled priest (after the Greek presbutos) and bishop (again from the Greek).
On the contrary, we find the Protestant (and all non Catholic) practice to be unbiblical, heretical, and full of hubris.
I have asked this question a few times in the Religion forum and I ask it again: How many here kneel in prayer? How many kneel before God? The Papists are well represented.
The earliest Christians wore symbols of their faith, such as the Chi-Rho, the Anchor, the Good Shepherd, and, of course, the Crucifix / Cross. Do you wear a symbol of your faith?
Falling down before the trunk of a tree? It is Jesus Christ himself who humbled himself to die upon a Roman cross. I do not fall down before a tree. I kneel before God, and bend my stiff neck. The Crucifix is a remembrance of what He has done. I am not ashamed. I am humbled before Him. Do you practice anything like that?
If not, why?
Maybe it's good that RCCs feel uncomfortable when mention is made of that particular part of their past and present.
I know I'd sure feel uneasy believing something so profoundly unScriptural.
What makes "RCCs" feel uncomfortable is not the mentioning of it, but the manner it which the mentioning was conveyed. We are known by our fruit.
I agree with Paul...
"I know whom I have believed." -- 2 Timothy 1:12
And I agree with John Knox who clearly stated the problem Rome has in reading the Scriptures with any amount of clarity or discernment since Rome encourages men to presume incorrectly that there are mediators between men and God besides Jesus Christ...
"That God's word damns your ceremonies it is evident; for the plain and straight commandment of God is, 'Not that thing which appears good in thy eyes shalt thou do to the Lord thy God, but what the Lord thy God has commanded thee; that do thou; add nothing to it; diminish nothing from it.' Now unless you are able to prove that God has commanded your ceremonies, this his former commandment will damn both you and them." -- John Knox (Knox, Works, 1:199. Cf. Calvin, The Necessity of Reforming the Church, in Tracts, 1:128-29.)
Repent.
And the fruit of your belief was removed from the discussion because apparently it made some people uncomfortable.
That's probably a good thing. Men should feel uncomfortable with idolatry.
Somebody is leading you somewhere, that's for sure.
Jesus left the mechanism of the forgiveness of sins in the hands of trained men. If you reject that, are you rejecting the forgiveness of your own sins?
Jesus commanded us to eat His Body and drink His Blood. Are you following his command?
Jesus gave us the Beatitudes. Do you practice them?
Jesus knelt in prayer before the Father. Do you?
Jesus gave us Mary while on the Cross - Mother, behold, your son. Son, behold your mother - do you reject this too?
Jesus fasted. Do you?
Jesus left us His Church in the hands of those trained men. Do you accept and follow Her?
So, just like receiving the password and grip of a secret society, you're in like Flint? Poof. Except that you don't really have to conform to any rules except those you choose to follow and in the manner you choose to follow them?
Geez, you guys are like wannabe Johnny Cochranes or F. Lee Baileys. Always looking for an angle or a new twist on things. Just give it up, and swim the Tiber. It's getting cleaner every year. :)
Umm, John Knox isn't in my (whole, unabridged) Bible.
Humbling myself before God is.
They should not practice it at all. Including the self-idolatry preeminent in the new non-denominational churches, complete with rock stars and mob emtion.
I am not anti-Catholic, I am pro-God.
And I do not believe any particular doctrine or tradition of men has the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth.
The very thought of it is ridiculous to me - because mortals can never see "all that there is" from God's perspective - only what He wants us to know.
I expect to see lots of different "labels" in heaven!
More directly, to the challenge posted, i.e. how to know a person is led of the Spirit, I propose these might be good questions to ask ourselves:
Is anything as important as God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) to me?
If I had to give up every loved one, every possession, every thing - right here and now - would I have any reservation or hesitation?
Who do I believe?
Who do I trust?
Do I love those who hate me?
Do I love everyone else, both in word and in deed?
"I know whom I have believed." -- 2 Timothy 1:12 And I agree with John Knox who clearly stated the problem Rome has in reading the Scriptures with any amount of clarity or discernment since Rome encourages men to presume incorrectly that there are mediators between men and God besides Jesus Christ...
"That God's word damns your ceremonies it is evident; for the plain and straight commandment of God is, 'Not that thing which appears good in thy eyes shalt thou do to the Lord thy God, but what the Lord thy God has commanded thee; that do thou; add nothing to it; diminish nothing from it.' Now unless you are able to prove that God has commanded your ceremonies, this his former commandment will damn both you and them." -- John Knox (Knox, Works, 1:199. Cf. Calvin, The Necessity of Reforming the Church, in Tracts, 1:128-29.) Repent.
Since I don't normally lie with my right hand(I prefer my wife) :), I'll merely have to point back to the fact the Jesus calls His Church the Pillar of Truth and commands us to go to Her for teaching and instruction. Whatever your interpretation of Paul (and I don't read it the same as you - your inclusion of this as evidence of your viewpoint seems to go back to existence of the little voices again), I'll have to go with Christ's words, which are very plain and very direct.
By the way, how about explaining them away, instead of merely ignoring them and/or giving me back duelling verses?
Ashamed of Christianity now, are we? Too proud to kneel? Tsk, tsk. Unbiblical!!!
What do my words - and especially my actions - say?
Is anything as important as God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) to me?
If I had to give up every loved one, every possession, every thing - right here and now - would I have any reservation or hesitation?
Who do I believe?
Who do I trust?
Do I love those who hate me?
Do I love everyone else, both in word and in deed?
Excellent questions that perhaps all of us could and should ask of ourselves. But how do they show that the Holy Spirit is alive and well and living in us?
With the exception of belief in the Trinity, I'd say that Mahatma Gandhi was a much better Christian than I am. And I'm sure that there are people who act much more grossly than I do that are better, and those who act more piously are worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see the answer here.
It would never, ever have crossed my mind to refer to Christ's blood as a mere "mechanism...in the hands of trained men". Such a statement is as offensive to me as others claim my post #88 was to them. But not to worry! IMO Christ can (and has) forgiven any offensive parts found in both.
IMO that's a sad comparison to make - I'm guessing you're more familiar with the film than the real man. I'd recommend you check out Richard Grenier's The Gandhi Nobody Knows as a start to learn more about the real man.
You forgot the part about "and he can beat the crap out of Sts. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Catherine of Siena, Francis of Assisi, Lawrence of Brindisi (oh, on second thought, I wouldn't go there!)...
;-o)
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