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To: Scotswife
It appears to me that the alleged 3-5 day life of sperm is not accurate.

How so? This life of sperm in mucus is scientifically proved and backed up through the 1000s and 1000s of charts CCL has collected since 1969. Sperm life only impacts the potential for pregnancy before ovulation (the temperature shift). After ovulation, sperm life has no impact. Regardless, CCL teaches fertility in the presence of mucus before ovulation. Therefore, even if sperm were to live more than 5 days, the system removes this 3-5 estimate due to the presence of mucus. If mucus is present, sperm has the potential to live. As you probably already know, without mucus, sperm live about a half hour to a few hours. The vagina provides an acidic environment without excess mucus.

This puts the brakes one everything for 90-95% if the time if I'm going to wait the recommended 3 days after the temperature shift.

CCL, nor no one I am aware of teaches that you wait 3 days after the temperature shift for dry up. The temperature shift is the indication of ovulation. After ovulation the life of the sperm does not matter since it has no ovum to fertilize. Ovum life span is 1 day. NFP adds a day to that for assurance. If you are drying up before the shift, you will be good to go as soon as the temp shift is complete. What system of NFP did you learn? How did you learn it?

And with all this talk about temps, mucous, charts, and saying "no - not today AGAIN"...well....I'm burned out on it all, especially when I just pregnant anyway.

I understand being bummed out in the situation you are in. I'd really like to help. I'd really like to see the charts that resulted in pregnancy. One of the things we do as an NFP teaching couple is help former students look at a chart they have problems with. We could do easily do a CSI on the chart to see how the chart resulted in pregnancy. It would take us about 3 minutes. By the way, CCL collects charts like these as well in order to learn and see how the system is used and works. Do you have many charts like this? I'd like to see them all if possible.
65 posted on 03/20/2007 7:20:20 AM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: klossg

"CCL, nor no one I am aware of teaches that you wait 3 days after the temperature shift for dry up. The temperature shift is the indication of ovulation. After ovulation the life of the sperm does not matter since it has no ovum to fertilize. Ovum life span is 1 day. NFP adds a day to that for assurance. If you are drying up before the shift, you will be good to go as soon as the temp shift is complete. What system of NFP did you learn? How did you learn it?"

I was loaned a CCL book once, but I believe I read the 3 day rule in the "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler.
I think the rationale was that temp can drop as hormones attempt to bring on ovulation, but sometimes the threshold is not met (stress, illness) and ovulation is postponed.
So...the idea is that if temp holds the pattern after 3 days it is safe to assume ovulation has occured and the egg is dead and gone.

"How so? This life of sperm in mucus is scientifically proved and backed up"

You can tell me that over and over.
I've read it over and over.
I am of the opinion that it can live at least up to 7 days.
No scientific study except personal experience - 3 times over.

"Do you have many charts like this? I'd like to see them all if possible."


I did. I threw them out in a bit of a hissy fit.
They said the same thing....ovulation anwhere from day 12-14.
sex 7 days prior.

The bartholin cyst problem is likely a factor as well, which means brakes would have to put on except maybe for a week (if I'm lucky) after ovulation.


69 posted on 03/20/2007 8:08:42 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: klossg

Good grief, klossg - at least some women have cervical mucus for 8 days - I do. I've read what I consider to be reliable and informed testimony from women who had intercourse 7 days before ovulation and conceived. Maybe some men have long-lived sperm and if they marry women with long CM phases, presto.

Wikipedia's "Menstrual Cycle" entry has footnotes to 3 scientific papers saying sperm can live 8 days.

If you want to make real sure NFP doesn't lead to pregnancy, you have to skip the pre-ovulatory time altogether.

And what do you do when your body starts throwing out a double ovulation now and then?


From Wikipedia, Menstrual Cycle:
"Sperm survive inside a woman for 3 days on average, with survival time up to five days considered normal. A pregnancy resulting from sperm life of eight days has been documented.[7][8][9]

# ^ Ball M (1976). "A prospective field trial of the "ovulation method" of avoiding conception". Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 6 (2): 63-6. PMID 985763.
# ^ Dr Evelyn Billings & Ann Westmore (2005). Trials of The Billings Ovulation Method. Retrieved on 2005-11-03.
# ^ Sinha G, Sinha A (1993). "A field trial of Billings' ovulation method for spacing and limitation of birth". J Indian Med Assoc 91 (10): 255-6. PMID 8308307. "

Mrs VS


71 posted on 03/20/2007 8:59:38 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: klossg

"CCL, nor no one I am aware of teaches that you wait 3 days after the temperature shift for dry up"

From...Taking Charge of Your Fertility
Toni Weschler, MPH


"3. Temperature Shift Rule
You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temperature is above the coverline...." (p. 129)

from the glossary...

"coverline : A line used to help delineate pre- and postovulatory temperatures on a fertility chart."


75 posted on 03/20/2007 10:09:28 AM PDT by Scotswife
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