You help me put my finger on the thing that's been niggling at me about this in the foggy resources of my deeper mind somewhere.
It seems to me . . .
That the idea of an amorphous, unitary, homoginized, 1,000% transparent, 1,000% totally merged EXISTENCE in eternity is a satanic EASTERN RELIGION; EASTERN MYSTICISM NOTION from the pit of hell.
It is an EASTERN RELIGION NOTION THAT:
1. ALL IS ONE.
2. THERE ARE NO DISTINCTIONS.
3. THERE ARE NOT EVEN DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL.
4. DISTINCTIONS ARE ILLUSION.
5. ALL IS ILLUSION.
6. OOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE GOD OF THE BIBLE AND HIS CREATION AND CREATURES ARE ENTIRELY ANTETHETICAL TO; OPPOSITE TO THAT.
Thanks, much Dawg. I knew there was something significant niggling at me in that direction.
Here's a good link explaining how the EO put the mechanics of the worship service (appearance) ahead of correct doctrine (reality), and tending to ignore Christ's atonement and justification...
I hold to the Reformed view of salvation because it is Biblical. It permeates every page of Scripture, and beautifully ties the covenants together in a tapestry of fulfillment which Jesus claimed He would accomplish through His substitutionary death on the cross (Matthew 5:17), which Paul reminds us, the gospel is the message of (1 Corinthians 1:18). In having "come home;" have you traded in the very Word of the Cross? Consider well the words of the Apostle Paul:
This issue is not an academic discussion, but a matter of eternal life or death. The Scripture is clear on that matter upon which all other points are meaningful. If we do not know how to come into a relationship with God, all other considerations are terribly moot. I write this because I love and care for my Orthodox friends. This is not motivated by hatred or a desire to engage in needless disputations. There is much to appreciate and admire about Eastern Orthodoxy. However, on this essential point, the official teaching of the church is about as unorthodox as it gets, when measured by the standard of the Word of God, and not the varied opinions of men, whether they be Greek or Latin, ancient or contemporary...""...despite the wealth of Biblical evidence for man's salvation set primarily in terms of substitution and satisfaction; hence the imputed righteousness of Christ being the basis for man's approach to God in relationship or worship, the (EO) foundation moves to a process which is set in more neo-Platonic categories than Hebraic, and is built on scanty textual support. In fact, a careful examination of 2 Peter 1:4 (one of the two principle passages upon which theosis is built in explicit terms, along with John 10:34,35) demonstrates the need for "hermeneutical gymnastics" to yield the interpretation that Orthodox theology requires to substantiate the concept of "divination."
'More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith' (Philippians 3:8,9 (emphasis mine)
Thank you oh so very much, Mad Dawg, for your wonderful sense of humor! It is much needed here and always, everywhere on the Religion Forum.
Quix, I am absolutely astonished that after all of our discussion of the different gemstones, the differences among the apostles, and on other threads – the differences among the churches – that you would demand that God must deal with each and every one of us exactly the same.
The ruby laser metaphor that hosepipe mentioned on another thread is such a wonderful example. The Light wavelength which is flashed into the ruby rod causes the electrons to build up energy (outer orbits) until it peaks – and then the return of those electrons to their inner orbits causes an offsetting emission of intense wavelength, the laser ray. The overload of Light to the ruby causes the laser!
I cannot think of a better metaphor for a Christian like Billy Graham. Can you?
But are all of us rubies? No way.
So what’s the big deal if kosta50 and I have a vision of being a jasper or clear diamond to His Light – in this world and the next?
And truly we do not have the same visions of heaven when God blesses us with them! hosepipe has experienced them, so has betty boop and so have I. Roland Buck testifies to them as does the Apostle John, Paul and Enoch. But only Jesus Christ speaks with authority.
I call them “night travels” by the way. And every time I’ve entered one it was while in deep worship laying aside every concern in this life.
There were never any words spoken in mine, though I got the distinct impression I could ask questions – I had none. But there was always melody, beautiful and impossible to describe with words.
Several times I saw my sister and she joined me in traveling around God’s magnificient creation. I knew it was her, but her form was more like an etching in crystal. Space, time, distance had no meaning. At once we’d be holding Saturn in our arms and at once we’d be in the middle of an iris looking out.
And there were calls to worship – not in language or sound, but we knew it was “time” to gather and we did. And there was Light, beautiful pure amazing living.
That vision is why I can say that I would be content to be a pillar there, in His Light - rather than flitting about His Creation, taking it all in - or working puzzles or playing games with my beloved sister.
In all of my “night travels” I only once saw something troubling. We flew over a valley which was rather dark and the people there were jumping like they wanted to fly too, but couldn’t. Actually I suspect it was that they believed they couldn’t. For all I know, that could have been a vision of "purgatory."
So are my “night travels” false? Or is God comforting me with what I need to see to correspond with the worship? I think it is the latter.
Enoch’s vision – like John’s – was one of glory and judgment. His mission was not to judge angels but to act like an advocate for the fallen angels. But the angels received no mercy, their end is written.
Paul’s vision was of paradise – where Adam and Eve were to live but failed.
And frankly, what I take away from Roland Buck’s vision is the blood of Christ, how precious it is and the meaning of the feasts. That he spoke with angels is the least important part, but the one which gets so much attention.
Same is true for Enoch, kosta50. Enoch was quoted in some 100 places altogether and yet never included in the canon. Why? Because the Church fathers were offended by the extensive discussion of angels. And truly, for some unknown reason people have a tendency to worship angels. How sad!
Quix, I’m very sure you’ll retain your personality in heaven. And I’m very sure that kosta50 will not.
No doubt that Paul’s personality is there in heaven, no doubt that John’s is not, he surrendered it while still in the flesh.
The angels are not alike. Jeepers, some of them were so willful they were rebellious. Others, like Michael (Jude) show restraint, "The Lord rebuke thee." And we will be like the angels in heaven.
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I [am] the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. - Mark 12:24-27
The bottom line is that God does not make His creatures with a cookie cutter.
The only times God speaks to equity in Scripture is when He explains that He did not make us to be equal. That is His will for us.
So please stop insisting that I be like you, dear beloved brother in Christ. I am what God wants me to be.