Posted on 03/07/2007 9:10:18 AM PST by Salvation
No, the way we are is not the way God made us. Otherwise, Christ would have come for no reason whatsoever. We are a poor apporximation at best what God made us. A fallen, tarnished figure of a once glorious creation.
Back in the '70s the new wave of 'improving self-image' through self-congratulatory folly came into vogue (and persists to this day). I remember a cartoon in one of the newspapers that said "God don't make no junk." God doesn't. WE do.
w/no clue about my heart, goals and priorities
You're right. I don't know your goals or priorities. However...
for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. - Matt 12:34b
I don't know your heart, but I have seen your words.
FK, what kosta has written at #597 is right on the money. The only thing I would add is our Orthopraxis, which is the dogma and doctrine in action. It expresses in our liturgies, devotions, prayer and daily lives the dogmas and doctrines of The Church. The actual forms of these things can, to a small degree, change, for example fasting practices have changed a number of times throughout history as have the liturgies around the edges; at one point in time there were canons which forbade Christians from going to a Jewish doctor or riding in public conveyances with Jews but these are no longer even remotely viable.
The only other thing I would say is that Orthodoxy does not define things to the extent the Latin Church, or the West in general I suppose, does. We don't have a specific corpus of canon law, for example, the way the Latin Church does. For this reason Orthodoxy often looks rather "loosey-goosey" to Western Christian eyes, but in fact we tend to be rather more firm on dogma, doctrine and praxis across all elements of The Church than even the Latin Church is.
In my experience, snippets of it could be shared, rarely too close confidants...
Because many/most people could care less about what You believe..
And the experience was specially constructed for YOU.. anyway..
In this case, it was more than a vision or a dream.
As he came back to his body at his desk, he realized he had a sheet of vellum like substance in his hands with the 120 predicted events/situations/items written on it in a beautiful hand written script.
He was quite tired so he just laid it down on his desk and went up to bed for the night. The next morning, the vellum like sheet had started to disintegrate. He scooped the pieces into an envelope and showed them to a number of people over a week or so, by which time they had 'evaporated' away.
Normally, I think dreams and visions are likely to be primarily for the person having them. But in these end times, I believe they will be increasingly for the Body of Christ and for the world, even.
I suspect being a parent has something to do with it, but I now find each and nearly every individual quirk or trait charming and endearing.
= = =
Increasingly the last 20 years or so . . . some from Scripture and some from anecdotal experiences of others . . .
THAT IS THE PICTURE I HAVE GROWN TO APPRECIATE OF FATHER, DADDY, ALMIGHTY GOD. Our "quirks" are no accident. Somehow, they will end up being, indeed already are--for HIS GLORY and will become more so.
This has been and remains a growing edge thing for me because of the tortured relationship I've had with blood dad and stepdad.
And one of the reasons such an understanding has been burned so deeply and vividly into my consciousness is that God has gone to great lengths to . . . VERY FIERCELY do two things repeatedly.
1. Very severely discipline me or anyone else who tried to meld, overwhelm, minimize, obliterate another individual's personhood, unique personality etc.
2. Very emphatically affirm sometimes the smallest detail of the personhood HE CREATED . . . even when I'd gone to great lengths to minimize or ignore or especially to trash such.
I have learned the very hard way that DADDY has intensely strong feelings about our individual personhood, personalities. But then, we are His. He made us AS HE MADE US FOR HIS GLORY AND PURPOSES. Why shouldn't He have strong feelings about such?
I'd be curious where you get this because it isn't even true for TEC, which is probably the least orthodox arm of Anglicanism. It is universally held by Anglicans that at least Baptism and the repeated reception of the Eucharist are required of all to have the opportunity of salvation.
Ok, I'm not sure how your statement differs from mine, IOW, "required for salvation", "effectual means of salvation", to me, say the same thing. But I'll agree with your sentence, it still doesn't affect my list in any way that I can see.
To answer your question directly, here is where I got my info on that particular topic.
By baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, a person is made one with Christ and received into the fellowship of the Church. This sacrament of initiation is open to children as well as to adults.
But that means we will concentrate on something other than God, i.e. self; and that's when sin begins.
= = =
The closest Biblical anything I can find to an image of all the saints sitting around chanting OOOMMMMMM eternally [NOT!]
is that the martyrs are always before The Father. I used to think--what a prison. Then it came to me--God has given them the most supremely wonderful existence. So it has to BE THE OPPOSITE OF A PRISON.
I have come to believe that it is likely that the martyrs standing eternally before The Father can somehow have access to the consciousness of any individual or creature in all creation as though they were that person. That would be opposite to a prison.
Further, that tuning in to ALL GOD IS INCLUDING ALL THAT HE IS IN AND THROUGH ALL HIS CREATION is not an affront or distraction from their adoration of DADDY. It is an eternal EXPLORATION OF DADDY'S GLORY AND LUXURIATING
IN
DADDY'S GLORY.
I'm interested in exploring the concept of this "invisible church" more, if you two (or anyone) is so inclined.
Is the statement above an acceptable definition for it? I ask because I wish to know how it's defined, and also, since, for JW's, that statement would fit their beliefs as well. But JW's don't believe Jesus is God.
So what I'm really asking is, what is the statement of faith that everyone who is a member of the "invisible church" must believe? What doctrines are non-negotiable?
Thanks.
NO!
NOT ANGELIC!
Scripture is quite clear. We shall JUDGE ANGELS.
Which is an interesting point . . . angels are to be lower than us as Scripture clearly states. And, evidently they have some sort of more 'automatic' obedience built-in--perhaps some sort of 'more transparent nature' for God's glory to shine through less impeded than we in our current earthly state.
YET, there are evidently even in eternity going to be DIFFERENCES sufficiently amongst them and their choices and actions that we shall judge them? What a mystery.
So, then, we have more than a couple more than transparent brain cells working together with which to judge them, evidently.
Sure we give God The Glory for all we are and do--increasingly even in this time/space dimension and wholesale in eternity. But Holy Spirit is the invisible wind, BREATH OF GOD--not humans. Not even redeemed humans.
Somehow, I'm reminded of the joke product--the invisible dog harnesses. It seems to me that God gets much more Glory out of the diversity of all us VISIBLE dogs than he ever would out of an infinite number of invisible dogs. LOL.
Saint Jerome - Doctor Of Biblical Studies
Saint Jerome: Doctor Of Biblical Studies
Yeah, well, often Quix's words are hard to miss.
Yeah, well, often Quix's words are hard to miss.
No, the only thing the Bible tells us is that man was created in the Image and Likeness of God. There is only one image and only one likeness of the eternal and unchanging God. Anything that detracts from that image and likness is un-godly. The fall occurred when man started to mind himselflikeness of God, not enhancing our personal differences.
That God created us with each our own unique gifts and needs is self-evident. It's also clear in Apostle Paul's writings. He's rather clear about being sensitive to the individual-ness of each person's personality, Christian maturity, constructions on reality and not eating meat or doing anything else to unnecessarily cause a brother to stumble.
Further, in 100% of the accounts I've read of folks being welcomed into Heaven and coming back to tell about it . . . God clearly arranges very tailored welcoming parties specifically tailored to each individual by those individuals who were closest to each person on earth etc. And, according to one report, most folks are not much use in Heaven for the equivalent of an earth year or 3 they are so overwhelmed with the majesty of Heaven it takes them that long to get used to it and acclimated, calmed down enough to fill their roles there.
And if folks think that we do not have INDIVIDUALIZED ROLES to play in eternity--then they must think that God is a very inadequate God. I'm reminded of JB Philip's book: YOUR GOD IS TOO SMALL . . . that He only knows how to make clones for cloned jobs? NOT!
The beauty and diversity we see here is evidently a microscopic hint of that we will enjoy in Heaven.
BEING THE INDIVIDUALS WASHED IN CHRIST'S BLOOD THAT DADDY DESIGNED AND CHRIST CREATED US TO BE
COULD NOT
BY DESIGN detract from God's Glory but only enhance it. God is not stupid. God is not clumsy. God is not limited in the diversity He can create and manage. Sheesh!
No, the way we are is not the way God made us.
Okay, most absolutely affirmative. We are fallen.
Does that necessarily mean that every difference between humans is a result of the Fall?
Would Adam and Eve have not been different had they not fallen?
You call that Paradise?
Actually, to me, that idea approaches BLASPHEMY.
1. MY HEAVENLY DADDY DESIGNED MY PERSONALITY.
2. My Lord and Savior Jesus The Christ created me and REDEEMED ME.
3. HOLY SPIRIT HAS BEEN BUSY MATURING AND OVERHAULING ME.
My personality is WHOLESALE FROM GOD, FROM HEAVEN. He not only designed and created me--He very carefully conditioned me with carefully arraged relationships, events, situations, experiences all resulting in precisely the eternal gem He had in mind to begin with.
There will not be anything left infecting my Heavenly personality which will be earthbound or which will detract from God's Glory.
Hear prayers, provide special intercession as the Mother of the Son of God, that she is the Mother of God, that she is the mother of the church, that she is the Queen of Heaven, that she was immaculately conceived, that she was ever virgin, or that she is our co-redeemer, that she appears to people with messages, that she makes statues bleed, that she performs miracles from heaven,
WELL PUT.
Thx.
Happy healing feet to you.
AMEN. INDEED. AGREED!
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