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To: Kolokotronis

A very interesting explanation of the NCC/Orthodox connection and also of the fondness of Episcopalianism! I think you're also right that this was a case of immigrants trying to fit in and reject what they saw as the immigrant stigma by becoming more white-bread American than anybody else.

I hope all the Orthodox churches leave the NCC. I suspect that in recent years a lot of thought has been given to some of these issues in the Orthodox churches in America, and they are probably still in the process of defining themselves and clarifying their doctrine, or at least its expression.


20 posted on 02/25/2007 5:49:37 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

"...and they are probably still in the process of defining themselves and clarifying their doctrine, or at least its expression."

Oh, there's no process of clarifying doctrine going on, except maybe with you guys and, interestingly, the Lutherans in Europe. There is no doubt, however, that Orthodoxy is undergoing a process of defining what it means to be Orthodox in America. For generations here it meant being Greek or Arab or Serb or Russian or whatever, rather like the ethnic nature of so many Catholic parishes into the 1980s. The parishes, while thoroughly Orthodox as a general proposition, were ethnic clubs. Being a member of the parish meant that you could still be a Greek, that you had a piece of the old country to run to in an otherwise often hostile America. On the other hand, the immigrants and their kids wanted more than anything else to be seen as Americans and to succeed here. If ever there was a group which appreciated the oppostunities presented by this country it was that bunch. But it also set up a sort of schizophrenia which resulted in an odd sort of "Greek/American" mentality which insisted on preserving hellenism in the parish while at the same time allowing all sorts of American, mostly Protestant, attitudes into the day to day life of the parish.

What we see developing today is a more and more American and very, very conservative form of Orthodoxy. The large influx of converts from white bread America plays a part in this. The large influx of former Soviet bloc immigrants into, say Greek or Antiochian parishes and the surprising number of Arab and African immigrant Orthodox showing up in Greek parishes is a major element of the change. In my parish, for example, there are 11 different ethnic groups counting the converts. We Greeks now make up just shy of 50% of the parish. The common language is English, not Greek. The common holidays are American, not Greek. So things change. Greek Orthodox becomes "Pan Orthodox". The parish becomes what it is in the old countries, not an ethnic club, but rather The Church. The new immigrants and perhaps even more so the converts, bring with them a profound commitment to traditional Orthodoxy and a respect for our old people and their struggles here both to establish the faith and make their way in a confusing foreign society. The humility of the converts in their willingness to assume a totally different way of looking at the world, to adopt and inculcate an Orthodox phronema, is a marvel to me. Both the converts and the new immigrants are an example to the more "Americanized" of us Greeks. I remember a few years back when I was president of the parish council and our metropolitan came for a visit. In my welcoming speech, I remarked that among the officers of the council, not one had a Greek surname. When he spoke, he opened his remarks by saying, "When I look out over this parish, I see the future of Orthodoxy in America." I think he's right.


21 posted on 02/25/2007 6:29:20 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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