Islam, Protestantism and Divergence from Catholicism

Faith Magazine ^ | January-February 2007 | Francis Lynch

[Titanites]

The Reformation was also a move in the direction of Islamic belief on the question of the sacraments, and related ideas about the priesthood. Sacraments, by which grace is given to the people, are a crucial part of Christianity. One of the key sacraments is Holy Orders since only the priest says Mass, hears confessions, confirms, ordains and annoints. Islam has no priesthood, no sacraments, no sacrifice, no temple, and no altar. These things are not unrelated. The priest is one who (in any religion) offers sacrifice and the altar is the place of sacrifice. A religion without sacrifice does not have priests or altars. Luther’s denial that Holy Orders is a sacrament changed the nature of the priesthood.

[gotribe]

I have tried to suggest that many of the major Protestant innovations have a relationship with Islam.

Well, there's that islamic sacrament of severing heads that hasn't yet been adopted by protestants.

[Alex Murphy]

BWA HAHAHA

I'm sure you consider this a serious, informed, well-researched comparison of Protestantism to Islam. Excuse me for a minute....

BWA HAHAHAHAHA

[Titanites]

That's probably why he said "many" and not "all". But I'm sure there are new variations to come.

[Titanites]

A ping to your Catholic list would be appreciated.

[Titanites]

Orthodox ping.

[livius]

Interesting suggestions. But many of the beliefs and practices of Protestantism are actually common to just about any of the earlier heresies: a rejection or weakening of belief in the Trinity, for example, or the rejection of the Eucharist and the sacramental priesthood. Others seem to be regular features of various heresies of "personal revelation," such as Mormonism, which frequently involve an attempt to adopt a distorted form of OT ritual law and a literal adherence to OT practices. As a result they often dabble in polygamy or adopt a decidedly pre-Christian view of women. Bear in mind that Islam developed in a climate that had been heavily influenced by Arian Christianity, and in which the divisions left by Arianism and other heresies made Middle Eastern Christians particularly weak in doctrine and vulnerable to attacks.

However, the idea of the Protestants' literal adherence to a book as being taken from Islam is something I'd never thought of before, and the author may be right on this. To my knowledge, there is no other, earlier Christian heresy that involves an attempt to cling to the literal words of a text. Perhaps it was Islam that suggested this to Luther's mind.

[Kolokotronis]

I must say I think this article is a bit over the top, but that said, reading the posts of the Protestants concerning the scriptures it has occurred to me more than once that the Protestant view of those scriptures and to a lesser extent, their view of God, is pretty thoroughly Mohammedan. Now its apparent that Mohammedanism didn't learn to read and use the Koran from Protestants, they didn't create their vengeful and thoroughly capricious god under the influence of Protestants, and they didn't condemn icons or dispense with a priesthood under the influence of Protestantism. Nor is the converse true so far as I know. I do think that both represent a continuing heretical variation of both Jewish and Christian theology and praxis current at the time of their inception, however.

[Kolokotronis]

Beat me to it. See post #8!

[CarrotAndStick]

There are Spanish Jews in India, settled there couple of centuries ago, as a result of fleeing the Catholic church's Inquisition. And those were the lucky ones who could escape.


Do the dots connect with the Islamic aspect now?


Why is it that most Protestant-majority countries are far well-off than most Catholic-majority ones? Is this an ignorant observation, or does it have something to do with that Protestant work ethic that was supposedly famous in that community, years ago?

[livius]

It's a really interesting suggestion, because the thing that is distinctive about the Protestant heresy (well, in its purest form - latter-day liberal Protestants certainly can't be accused of taking the Bible literally!) is its view of the scriptures. And that of course is a feature only of Islam; while Jews revere Jewish scriptures, they have always interpreted them, so this literalness did not come from the Jews.

One thing that always amazes me is how similar all heresies are, though; I guess there is only a limited number of things you can monkey around with if you feel called to heresy!

I was just in Rome last week, btw, enjoying all those beautiful ancient churches with their glorious Byzantine decoration and the great signs of unity in the orthodox faith. I was really overwhelmed when I thought of this stream of orthodox belief that comes to us from the Apostles. I can't understand why people don't want to be part of it or how they can bear to separate themselves from it to follow some shallow and constantly fragmenting heresy off to its dead end.

[Titanites]

Why is it that most Protestant-majority countries are far well-off than most Catholic-majority ones?

I'm not going to bite. I'd rather the discussion focus on the article and not veer off into the boonies.

[Enosh]

I can think of two sacraments, (sacramentum - "make sacred"), in Islam right off the bat:

1. The Hajj
2. They stick their butts in the air, pointed away from Mecca, during prayer.

I'm still undecided as to bothering with the rest of this silly article.

[gotribe]

Yep. The author has his hat on backwards.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Why is it that most Protestant-majority countries are far well-off than most Catholic-majority ones? Is this an ignorant observation, or does it have something to do with that Protestant work ethic that was supposedly famous in that community, years ago?

Amen. And precisely so.

The Reformation was a return to Trinitarian Christianity with Scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit as preeminent paths to understanding that we are saved by Christ's atonement alone. We work to glorify God; not to appease Him. Christ already accomplished that by being the only propitiation for our sins.

To posture that Islam has anything to do with Christianity of any ilk is preposterous. But if you had to align Islam with one, it would certainly be the church of Rome which insists there are some on earth more deserving of God's grace than others.

[Kolokotronis]

"I'm still undecided as to bothering with the rest of this silly article."

Well, I don't know how "silly" it really is. I do think that the author may be attributing a connection running from Mohammedanism to Protestantism which is seeing something which isn't there. But it is fascinating that in two theological systems which The Church views as heretical, we see so many remarkable similarities. Personally I don't think there is a direct connection, but as I said, I do think that the influence of the early Christian heresies which history tells us much of Mohammedanism arose from on the one hand and which Protestantism claims as its religious forebears on the other does show up to this day both in the theologies and the praxis of these two belief systems. I can't say, as I think about it, that that surprises me, but it is interesting nevertheless.

[Blogger]

To posture that Islam has anything to do with Christianity of any ilk is preposterous. But if you had to align Islam with one, it would certainly be the church of Rome which insists there are some on earth more deserving of God's grace than others
This is not the only similarity between Rome and Islam. The idea of rituals that HAVE TO be performed in order to gain God's favor is something that Islam got from the prevalent religion of its day. It would not have gotten that idea from Protestantism. The idea that one doesn't know for sure until after one dies whether or not one has found favor with God is an idea that Islam got from the prevailing religion at the time of its birth, not something that they would have gotten from Protestantism. In fact, the idea that Islam was keeping an eye on what all of those bishops were doing, at least at a surface level, is attested to in the fact that they have astutely observed in their Quran the deification of Mary by the Roman Catholic church: "And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. "[Qur'an 5:116]

Gee, if your religion is so unclear to the casual observer as to who it thinks God is, shouldn't that indicate that there is a problem? Certainly something that SHOULD give one pause for consideration.

[alpha-8-25-02]

pull this trash!

[Enosh]

I'm thinking in broad theological terms rather than smaller disputes over procedures and such.

All Christianity has more in common with Judaism than it does with Islam. The first person of the Trinity, the Father, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In my opinion, Allah is not God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which means Muslims have no spiritual relationship whatsoever with Jews or Christians.

From that vantage point, the root concept of this article becomes ridiculous.

[Enosh]

pull this trash!

No! Catholics are constantly bashed here, we Protestants get our turn too.