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1 posted on 02/10/2007 4:24:07 PM PST by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Tomorrow - Part II


2 posted on 02/10/2007 4:24:48 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer; cowtowney; xsmommy; TitansAFC; coton_lover; SoCalPol; talkshowamerica; markomalley; pbear8; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

3 posted on 02/10/2007 4:27:30 PM PST by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: NYer
This one is easy.

Job 40:1-4

The LORD said to Job: Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!

Then Job answered the LORD : I am unworthy—how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth.

I submit the entire books of Job and Ecclesiastes for review.

4 posted on 02/10/2007 4:37:55 PM PST by Enosh
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


5 posted on 02/10/2007 6:39:12 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, insects)
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To: NYer
"No single factor is invoked more often in people turning away from God, or in their failing to believe in Him, than the occurrence of evil."

I would assert almost the opposite. Good, independent of faith through Christ is parlayed into evil by the Adversary. An incredible temptation exists to make order out of chaos or build worldly systems, cosmic systems, which are very good for the short term, but whenever they are made without faith through Christ, they are ultimately good for nothingness.

IMHO, human good in worldly thinking tends to be invoked far more often, on a daily, hourly, if not continual basis by many believers and unbelievers alike.

The occurence of good, as in human or worldly good, void of divine good by faith in Christ, is IMHO a much greater temptation to man turning away from God than the occurrence of evil. Evil in many fashions tends to remind people of the law, whereas human good deceptively fools the carnal Christian into thinking they are performing good works for God when they are simply living by worldly standards.

It might also be noted that God loves order being made from chaos, i.e. the world, but only when performed through faith in Christ.

6 posted on 02/10/2007 6:57:36 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
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To: NYer

Buuuuuummmmmmmp.


7 posted on 02/10/2007 8:14:30 PM PST by TBP
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To: NYer
As Saint Paul tells us, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child."2

St Paul had me pegged. I was very angry with God when my Dad died at 42 leaving 5 kids. I was even angrier when the youngest of the 5 was killed in a car accident. Then I became a man with a well developed set of beliefs and a never ending thanks for our God who gave us the greatest gift of all, freedom.

8 posted on 02/10/2007 8:19:12 PM PST by jwalsh07 (Duncan Hunter for President)
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To: NYer
Criminalize God and you exonerate man. Lay the root of evil (in this case, the suffering of the proletariat) at the foot of God, proceed to abolish God, and you abolish the root of the evil.

***********

Good article. Mention in passing either the Devil or evil and see what happens to conversation.

12 posted on 02/11/2007 7:23:37 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer
Theists don't have a "problem of evil"--atheists do.

Despite the stupid assumption that G-d would not allow evil to exist, the fact is quite the opposite: the existence of G-d is absolutely essential to have evil.

Only G-d can define objective good and objective evil. Atheists find themselves in the predicament of defining for themselves "objective" evil in a world they hold is meaningless, when in a meaningless world objective evil could not exist.

Many people might cringe at the idea of G-d being responsible for evil, but G-d is responsible for everything. He did not have to create the universe but did so. By bringing into existence something other than himself G-d made evil possible. According to the midrash, already before Adam had even been created the earth rebelled against G-d when he commanded it to bring forth `eitz-peri `oseh peri ("trees of fruit bearing fruit") and it instead brought forth `eitz `oseh peri ("trees bearing fruit"). For this disobedience the ground was cursed at the expulsion of Adam. The same ground later tried to aid Cain by swallowing the blood of his slain brother Abel. There is also a midrash about the creation of the sun and moon in which the moon protested that "it is impossible for two monarchs to wear the same crown," for which it was reduced.

What all this means is that, since G-d cannot reproduce Himself, His creating something other than Himself is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Many chr*stians try to deal with this by positing that G-d created a perfect, sinless universe into which sin was introduced by Satan. This makes Satan a co-creator of the world, G-d forbid. But (contrary to chr*stianity), Satan is not a fallen angel but is merely doing his various jobs assigned to him by HaShem (as is illustrated in the Book of Job). Furthermore we know that G-d Himself created both the good and evil inclinations and placed them within Adam (this is the meaning of the two yods in Genesis 2:7 (Vayiytzer HaShem 'Eloqim 'et-Ha'Adam). Each of the two Yods is a reference to each of man's two yeitzers (inclinations)--good and evil. Add on top of this that the first human sins were committed by the perfect, unfallen Adam and Eve and it becomes obvious that G-d created the possibility of sin. Then on top of all that is the fact that everything that has ever happened or ever will happen is governed by G-d's Providence.

This we see that G-d is the sole creator of the world, not the "co-creator" with Satan, G-d forbid.

Atheists are stupid when they look at mass murder and other atrocities and then, to answer some perverted and self-defined sense of "justice," remove HaShem from the world. They are left with all the mass murders but they can no longer be said to be objectively evil.

Idiots.

13 posted on 02/11/2007 7:42:57 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ("Kol 'asher-dibber HaShem na`seh venishma`!")
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To: NYer
A Preface to the Problem of Evil

The Problem of Evil: Exonerating God - Part I Prefacing the Problem

The Problem of Evil: Exonerating God -Part II -The Problem Summarized

32 posted on 02/22/2007 7:58:06 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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