5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
If you do some research you'll find that this trinity "proof text" doesn't really exist and was a later addition. Even the trinitarian commentaries admit it.
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"1 John 5:7-8
7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The text of this verse should read, "Because there are three that bear record". The remainder of the verse is spurious. Not a single manuscript contains the trinitarian addition before the fourteenth century, and the verse is never quoted in the controversies over the Trinity in the first 450 years of the church era.
8. The three witnesses are the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
"The trinity of witnesses furnish one testimony" (Plummer, The Epistles, p. 116) namely that Jesus Christ came in the flesh to die for sin that men might live."
(from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press)
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"1 John 5:7
There are three that bear record] The FATHER, who bears testimony to his Son; the WORD or Logos (NT:3056), who bears testimony to the Father; and the HOLY SPIRIT, which bears testimony to the Father and the Son. And these three are one in essence, and agree in the one testimony, that Jesus came to die for, and give life to, the world. But it is likely this verse is not genuine. It is wanting in every manuscript of this letter written before the invention of printing, one excepted, the Codex Montfortii, in Trinity College, Dublin: the others which omit this verse amount to one hundred and twelve. It is missing in both the Syriac, all the Arabic, AEthiopic, the Coptic, Sahidic, Armenian, Slavonian, etc., in a word, in all the ancient versions but the Vulgate; and even of this version many of the most ancient and correct MSS. have it not. It is wanting also in all the ancient Greek fathers; and in most even of the Latin.
The words, as they exist in all the Greek MSS. with the exception of the Codex Montfortii, are the following:
"6. This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7. For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.
9. If we receive the witness of man, the witness of God is greater, etc."
The words that are omitted by all the MSS., the above excepted, and all the versions, the Vulgate excepted, are these:
[In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one, and there are three which bear witness in earth.]
To make the whole clearer, that every reader may see what has been added, I shall set down these verses, with the inserted words in parentheses.
"6. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7. For there are three that bear record (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
8. And there are three that bear witness in earth), the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and these three agree in one.
9. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater, etc."
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1996 by Biblesoft)
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"1 John 5:7
Two or three witnesses were required by law to constitute adequate testimony. The only Greek manuscripts, in any form, which support the words, "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one: and there are three that bear witness in earth," are the Montfortianus of Dublin, copied from the modern Latin Vulgate; the Revianus, copied from the Complutensian Polyglot; a manuscript at Naples, with the words added in the margin by a recent hand; Ottobonianus, 298, of the fifteenth century, the Greek of which is a translation of the accompanying Latin. All the old versions omit the words. The oldest manuscripts of the Vulgate omit them, the earliest Vulgate manuscript which has them being Wizanburgensis, 99. of the eighth century. A Scholium quoted in Matthaei shows that the words did not arise from fraud; for all Greek manuscripts ("there are three that bear record"), the Scholiast notices, have "three," masculine, because the three things (the Spirit, the water, and the blood) are SYMBOLS OF THE TRINITY. To this Cyprian, 196, refers: 'Of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it is written, "And these three are one" ' (a unity)."
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)
You might want to look into Matthew 28:19 as well:
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, ***baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost***:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV
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"While no MS. of the first three centuries is inexistence, we do have the writings of at least two men who did actually possess, or had access to MSS. much earlier than our earliest now in existence. And there were others who quoted the passage of Matthew 28:19 in those early times.
Who were these men? When did they write? Has they access to very early MSS.? Were they reliable and exact? How did they quote Matthew 28:19? These are the questions that must be answered."
*snip*
"Eusebius As A Witness:
There were several men of this name. The one with whom we are concerned is known as Eusebius Pamphili, or Eusebius of Caesarea. He was born about 270 A.D. and died about 340 A.D. He lived in times of gross spiritual darkness, he was a Trinitarian, and later in life he assisted in the preparation of the Nicene Creed...."
*snip*
" According to F.C. Conybeare, "Eusebius cites this text again and again in his works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries on the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany ...in his famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew xxviii. 19, and always in the following form: "
"Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you."
from:
http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/matthew2819.html
Why would one of the greatest trinitarians leave out the greatest proof-text of the trinity from his writings?. Because it wasn't in the manuscripts that he had access to? Do a google search, there's plenty more out there.
I agree with you 1000 silverlings, after reading this thread, Four verses just jumped out at me. The first was 1- Cor. 10:12 "Let he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall" (N.A.S.) Getting back to faith for a moment, Hebrews 11:1 says in the King James version " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Our small minds can not yet fathom the exact nature of God. The one thing I don't think I'll ever understand, but I just plain believe, is how three distinct entities can be one. I believe God in Heaven, after many prophets were rejected by mankind, decided to come down to Earth himself, to show us how much he loves us, to break the reign of sin that Adam had initiated, and to show us how to live our lives in a way that we would have a more intimate relationship with him. He came down and in although in the full nature of God, was born as a man. He needed to live a sinless life in order to defeat the power of sin over mankind, right on through to the end of his earthly life. Having done this, Being God, he rose again from the dead.(Something else I don't think I'll ever quite understand, I just believe that it happened) and so returning to heaven, but leaving behind part of himself, the Comforter, Or Holy Spirit (also God) to fill, guide, protect and convict us. To be part of our whole being, to live within us. Hebrews 11:6 (N.I.V.)-" And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him". 2nd Timothy 2:23 (N.A.S.) "but refuse foolish and endless speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels" or the N.I.V. states it this way " Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels" the next verse says " And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." If we try to have all the answers and "proof" of the nature of God why would we need faith at all? God wants people who honestly love him and trust him to live with him in eternity, I don't think he approves of "know-it-alls" but I know he love them just the same Because God is not a respecter of persons. He loves all people equally, not willing that any of us should perish, but that we should all live with him for eternity. BUT he gave us all a free will to choose or believe what we want to, and also do as we please anything our hearts or minds desire, but not without consequence. He WILL separate the wheat from the tares, because we can't work or connive our way into heaven or live a life of Godlessness and think all is well. This is serious business. I don't know where the exact verse is but I think it was Paul who said "Let each person work out his own salvation with fear and trembling" or something like that. Somewhere else I remember someone saying, either one of the Apostles or Jesus. " The fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding" (or wisdom) Even though the word trinity is not in the bible the concept is all throughout. God the Father, his son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit(or Comforter) are all one in the same, but yet distinct in their own unique natures. I guess we'll understand it more clearly when we get to heaven. You either believe that God's word is true and inerrant as laid down by the holy spirit through men or you don't. Romans 10:17 says (K.J.V.) " So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the WORD of God".