The Doctrine of Purgatory

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Eschatology/Eschatology_006.htm ^ | Unknown | Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J

[blue-duncan]

"Not so fast xzins, don't you still have the Chart???"

I have been away for a while being interrupted by clients, but what about a chart? I didn't think, nay by TRADITION, we don't keep lists and a chart is a form of a list. Incipient heresy? Brother xzins is a Methodist and there have rumblings in the United camp about "same sex" marriage and ordinations but I didn't think the apostasy went so far as to include lists/charts.

[GoLightly]

Every Protestant church I've been in, including the Presbyterian churches have had a bare Cross.

[ArrogantBustard]

When I was studying for my Masters in Brewing

For real? FR is full of interesting people. Do you homebrew?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Anyway I just got in the plain wrapper mail a Swaggert's Favorite Angel Calendar.

Very suspicious. We are known by our mailing lists.

A notation has been entered.

[bornacatholic]

LOL

And sure, call me BC

[redgolum]

Yep, for real. Haven't done a home brew yet (when you used brew alcohol on an industrial scale, home brew seems a bit weak), and my wife flipped last time I tried to boil wort on the stove. My problem is I have to high of an expectation, and hate to fail. I did get a kit for Christmas and I might try that, but I really would love to get a set up to partial germinate my own barely and do things the old fashioned way.

Herriat-Watt Univ. in Scotland (which I probably misspelled badly) has a lot of distance courses, and a masters in brewing was one of them. I got about half way through when my company decided it didn't want me to finish.

[blue-duncan]

BC, I also look at purgation from the stand point of Prov. 27:17, "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." and count our discussions in that category.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Chart? I like the simplicity of Van Til's...

[ArrogantBustard]

(when you used brew alcohol on an industrial scale, home brew seems a bit weak)

Hmmm ... I've been homebrewing for going on two years, now. It's fun, and the result tastes a whole lot better than anything I can buy in the grocery. But I'll admit that a 5 gallon bucket isn't an industrial fermenter. Does your bride like beer? Get her in on the act ... it's really my thing, but Mrs. Bustard helps out. Bottling requires 4 hands.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If you ever fall on hard times, you've got a goldmine in the attic.

Or are they in the basement?

[Kolokotronis]

"I look at purgation from the standpoint of Gen 2:18, "And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." That's what marriage is for. Everything else is commentary."

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who doesn't believe that should sit down with an old country lawyer like me and hear why he has refused to take a divorce case/domestic relations matter for more than 20 years now!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

That leaves DrE and me being the only ones depending solely on the Lord without any bricbrac or icons to aid us on our way.

But I've got you. 8~)

Now what?

[Vicomte13]

So, according to you, a demon is healing people at Lourdes.

The healings are real, and you have said that they are wonders done in the name of God, and signs performed by spirits of demons.

You are either right, and the Lourdes healings are the work of demons.
Or you are wrong, and you have called the Holy Spirit a demon.

I think the Holy Spirit performs the healings at Lourdes.
You think that demons perform the healing at Lourdes.
Jesus said that all sins will be forgiven except blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which will not be forgiven.
So, one of us has blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
We'll find out who in the end.

[Vicomte13]

Fine. Lourdes is an amusement park.
But people are really medically healed there.
There is an international medical committee that records the medical effects of the place.

So, who is doing the healing. DungeonMaster says it is a demon. I say it is the power of the Holy Spirit. What do you say of the healings at Lourdes, which is medically documented in thousands of cases, some quite alarming.

Is it the manifestation of a demon, or is it the Holy Spirit at work?

Your doctrine answers all things, so NAME the entity demonstrating power at Lourdes: call it by name: The Holy Spirit, or the Devil. Which is it? Commit yourself.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The priest is praying the Mass anyway, it's not like he arranges for a special Mass to be prayed on the day you request it. He's there, that's his job, that's what he became ordained for. But, if they believe that the Mass truly is the re-presentation of Christ's Sacrifice, then to place money between the Mass and the person requesting that the Mass be prayed for their loved ones is obscene. And the argument advanced that if you can't afford the stipend one would be said anyway is worthless. Must you plead poverty before the deacon or priest or office manager for the stipend to become non-essential?

Amen! Terrific post.

[DungeonMaster]

The realness of the healings are not evidence as to their source, which is why I posted the verses. The bible is clear that we can't trust healings. Therefore, what can we trust? How about the Word of God and the testimony of anyone doing any healing.

[blue-duncan]

"hear why he has refused to take a divorce case/domestic relations matter for more than 20 years now!"

I have to take a couple a year for my best corporate clients and they take more out of me than long contested civil trials. They never end. Everything is used as leverage, especially children. It should all be handled through binding arbitration with the parties sitting next to each other and drinking water without a "potty" break until it is resolved.

[wagglebee]

Further, is there a single documented case in history of satan ever healing anyone? What reason would satan have for healing someone?

[xzins]

Prior to my divine appointment as a neener, I led a life as an embittered opponent of anything vaguely calvinist. Long a thorn in the side of such as Jerry_M, rnmomof7, and assorted others, to include our own DrE and gamecock, I developed a chart comparing Calvinist and Arminian notions of Tulip.

It was a lovely thing with reds, greens, and blues, (and evidence that I was learning html), and it was almost, nearly, somewhat, slightly biased in favor of one side over the other.

IT was in the days before I realized the sin of lists, from which I repented. Now I am listless and a great example of listlessness.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

by TRADITION, we don't keep lists and a chart is a form of a list.

You are such a Baptist. Loosen up and organize just a little bit.

"The acceptable way of worshiping the true God is instituted by Himself and so limited by his own revealed will that he may not be worshiped according to the imaginations or devices of men or the suggestions of Satan under any visible representation or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures." (WCF)

And there's lists all over the place in the Bible.