Posted on 01/28/2007 5:25:46 AM PST by NYer
The Early Church Fathers recognized Oral Tradition (as taught by the Church) as being equally authoritative as written Tradition (Scripture) because they both came from the same God through the same Church.
Papias
Whenever anyone came my way, who had been a follower of my seniors, I would ask for the accounts of our seniors: What did Andrew or Peter say? Or Phillip or Thomas or James or John or Matthew, or any of the Lord’s disciples? I also asked: What did Aristion and John the Presbyter, disciples of the Lord say. For, as I see it, it is not so much from books as from the living and permanent voice that I must draw profit (The Sayings of the Lord [between A.D. 115 and 140] as recorded by Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 3:39 [A.D. 325]).
Irenaeus
For even creation reveals Him who formed it, and the very work made suggests Him who made it, and the world manifests Him who ordered it. The Universal [Catholic] Church, moreover, through the whole world, has received this tradition from the Apostles (Against Heresies 2:9 [A.D. 189]).
True knowledge is the doctrine of the Apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved, without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither addition nor curtailment [in truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the Word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy… (ibid. 4:33 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
For wherever both the true Christian rule and faith shall be shown to be, there will be the true Scriptures, and the true expositions, of all the true Christian traditions (The Prescription of Heretics 19 [A.D. 200]).
Origen
Seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the Apostles, and remaining in the churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition (On First Principles Bk. 1 Preface 2 [circa A.D. 225]).
Eusebius
While [Ignatius of Antioch] was making the journey through Asia under the strictest military guard, he strengthened the diocese in each city where he stayed by spoken sermons and exhortations, and he especially exhorted them above all to be on their guard against the heresies which then for the first time were prevalent and he urged them to hold fast to the tradition of the Apostles to which he thought it necessary, for securities sake, to give form by written testimony (Ecclesiastical History, 3:36 [A.D. 325]).
Athanasius
Without prefixing Consulate, month, and day, [the Fathers] wrote concerning Easter, "It seemed good as follows," for it did then seem good that there should be a general compliance; but about the faith they wrote not, "It seemed good" but, "Thus believes the Catholic Church"; and thereupon they confessed how they believed, in order to show that their own sentiments were not novel, but Apostolic; and what they wrote down was no discovery of theirs, but is the same as was taught by the Apostles (Letter on the Councils of Ariminum and Seleucia [A.D. 359]).
Basil
Of the beliefs and practices whether generally accepted or publicly enjoined which are preserved in the Church some we possess derived from written teaching; others we have received delivered to us "in mystery" by the tradition of the Apostles; and both of these in relation to true religion have the same force. And these no one will contradict; - no one, at all events, who is even moderately versed in the institutions of the Church. For were we to attempt to reject such customs as have no written authority, on the ground that the importance they possess is small, we should unintentionally injure the Gospel in these matters… (On the Holy Spirit 27 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
Don’t you know that the laying on of hands after baptism and then the invocation of the Holy Sirit is a custom of the Churches? Do you demand Scripture proof? You may find it in the Acts of the Apostles. And even if it did not rest on the authority of Scripture the consensus of the whole world in this respect would have the force of a command. For many other observances of the Churches, which are do to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law (The Dialogue Against the Luciferians 8 [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
"So then brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours" (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Hence it is manifest, that they did not deliver all things by epistle, but many things also unwritten, and in like manner both the one and the other are worthy of credit. Therefore let us think the tradition of the Church also worthy of credit. It is a tradition, seek no farther (Homilies on Second Thessalonians [circa A.D. 400]).
Vincent of Lerins
I have often then inquired earnestly and attentively of very many men eminent for sanctity and learning, how and by what sure and so to speak universal rule I may be able to distinguish the truth of Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical pravity; and I have always, and in almost every instance, received an answer to this effect: That whether I or any one else should wish to detect the frauds and avoid the snares of heretics as they rise, and to continue sound and complete in the Catholic faith, we must, the Lord helping, fortify our own belief n two ways: first, by the authority of the Divine Law, and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church (Commonitory 2 [A.D. 434])
Theodoret
I have ever kept the faith of the Apostles undefiled… So have I learnt not only from the Apostles and the Prophets but also from the interpreters of their writings, Ignatius, Eustathius, Athanasius, Basil, Gregory, John, and the rest of the lights of the world; and before these from the holy Fathers in council at Nicaea, whose confession of the faith I preserve in its integrity, like an ancestral inheritance [styling corrupt and enemies of the truth all who dare to transgress its decrees] (Letters no. 89 [circa A.D. 443]).
Which Ruthenian Byantine Parish did you attend? I think I might have been there a couple of times. St. Sharbel's, the Maronite one is soooo beautiful. I have heard that the Ibuna is a reader of souls. From what I have seen, I believe it.
Where abouts are you?
Obviously, I'm not allowed to respond...
The one thing I highly encourage both of you to think about is that many of the converts from other denominations bring over a lot of baggage. Some of the problems we are having in the LCMS are because of recent converts who wanted a more orthodox (little o) church but end up wanting it like the place they left.
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I've often wondered about that. Your explanation makes perfect sense. Thanks.
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I agree, but in fairness to Pope John Paul, he was ill for many years before his death. Still, Pope Benedict is brilliant.
We converted a small building to a chapel over on 82nd ave in SE portland. They them purchased Blessed Sacrament church off of Interstate Ave NE. and renamed it St. Irene's
I think that JPII's mind was just as lucid in his last years as it was earlier in his life. I did not mean to imply anything negative about him. I was just observing that I am drawn more strongly to Benedict XVI than I was to JPII. Your mileage may vary.
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I apologize if I gave the impression that you were criticizing Pope John Paul. I confess I feel the same about Pope Benedict.
Okay, totally off the wall question, was there a red headed family that attended the small chapel back in the early 1990's?
"I've often wondered about that. Your explanation makes perfect sense. Thanks."
She left out the part about the Lebanese, being first cousins to us Greeks, are far nicer people with much better food (ducking)! :)
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:) I can't disagree. I do wish we had at least one Greek restaurant in this area. We moved four years ago from an area with a fairly large Greek population, which was really wonderful.
"And why not? The Church was one when the Early Church Fathers wrote."
As Kosta says, "A Catholic Church, an Orthodox Faith". Think back, though, over your reading and your lifetime of listening to Popes. Have you ever heard a pope speak and teach like this one? I say it has been rather more than 1000 years since we have heard such a pope.
"IMHO, Benedict XVI's patristic scholarship is/was part of God's plan for him."
And perhaps for all of us!
"I do wish we had at least one Greek restaurant in this area."
No Greek parishes with Saturday night suppers? :)
Try the internet for recipes. Greek cooking is time consuming but not really very hard or complex!
Stuffed grape leaves-yum.
No ... thank you! Sorry you never inquired sooner.
While my dear friend, Kolokotronis, would argue that the Maronites are the most 'latinized' of all the Eastern Catholic Churches (and he would be right :-), the experience has been a veritable blessing! Experiencing a chanted liturgy, seeing incense waft heavenward, watching a priest make profound bows before the Tabernacle, hearing him chant the words of Consecration in Aramaic - the language of Christ, receiving communion by intinction and on the tongue, celebrating the major feasts with profound reverence and lyrical prayers that reach deep into the soul - ALL of this has stilled the 'inquietude' (sorry, sometimes French words work best) I felt each and every week, attending Mass at my former RC parish. And, there was no escape. Those RC parishes in this diocese that still maintained some semblance of reverence, are few and far between. My original list contained 4 parishes that have since been closed by the bishop.
I would have hung on and fought the abuses, but no one was willing to join me in the battle. They preferred to keep the priest than address the abuses. That left me to battle in the arena, alone. I have no regrets. The Maronite Catholic Church has not only been an oasis in the middle of an arrid desert, it has also nourished my soul with its prayers. In December 2005, our Maronite Bishop celebrated the Divine Liturgy recognizing our parish's centennial. At a reception that evening, out of the clear blue, he suggested that I pray the Maronite Divine Office. This was sheer inspiration on his part and he could not have found a more willing heart. Since then, I have faithfully said the Office each morning (evenings are more challenging because of work hours) and when I neglect to say these prayers, my heart and soul 'feel' the loss. They bring such comfort, joy and inspiration - like food for the soul. I am blessed with an awesome Bishop and parish priest.
She left out the part about the Lebanese, being first cousins to us Greeks, are far nicer people with much better food (ducking)! :)
No doubt, K, we both enjoy the essence of lemon, mint and thyme in the preparation of our dishes ;-). Both cuisines are sumptuous and without equal in the American diet. (how's that :-).
Trisham, if you are ever afforded the opportunity to attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy, please avail yourself of it. When RCs ask my Abouna about the differences between the Latin and Maronite liturgies, he replies with: "Same faith; different flavor". He is absolutely right!
"No doubt, K, we both enjoy the essence of lemon, mint and thyme in the preparation of our dishes ;-)."
And "rigani", don't forget the "rigani"! And the pistachios and the truly sublime liquid essences of orange and rose blossoms!
Well, then if you enjoy the scent of orange and rose blossoms, buy some of this:
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/16561129.htm?source=rss&channel=inquirer_nation
And leave plenty of room for desert ......
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