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To: Aquinasfan
" Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

If I remember correctly, God was counted amongst the pagan's and tax collectors. This verse can not be used to justify anyone's claim to authority. Any claim to authority to justify some claim, is simply a propaganda technique, not a logical operation.

The correct verse that applies to identify a Church is Matt 18:20, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." You cut a verse from a passage that was referring to men gathered for the purpose of accusing each other of sin. The passage can not logically apply to groups of men, both claiming to be "the Church", where the matter of contention requires an examination of the evidence and the application of logic.

The parties involved in the contention have 2 options. They can take the course of Mark 6:11 in recognition that all the evidence and logic shows they have been perfect, the matter of faith has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt and go their separate ways. Else they can recognize that the matter is not a matter of faith worth pressing and fractioning the Church over, and act as commanded in John 13:34-35. Mark 6:11,
"And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them."

John 13:34-35,
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I see no scriptural justification for any man, or group, to claim authority. The commands given in Matt 5:48 and Matt 19:14, apply to the decision of which course to take.

Matt 5:48, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Matt 19:14,
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

They apply with the following caution. Matt 5:20,
"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

330 posted on 01/25/2007 12:02:40 PM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
The correct verse that applies to identify a Church is Matt 18:20, "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

And wherever two or three come together in Jesus' name, we have divergent doctrines.

How many "pillars of truth" are there? One, or many?

How many churches did Christ build? One, or many?

Did Christ command us to take our disputes to His Church, or any church? How then could doctrinal disputes be settled in many churches with divergent doctrines? Or did Jesus not expect us to take our doctrinal disputes to His Church? In which case, what was His purpose in establishing many churches holding contradictory doctrines?

337 posted on 01/25/2007 12:11:49 PM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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