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To: GCC Catholic; Quix
How does this "prove" anything?

It doesn't need to "prove" anything. We are commanded to preach the Gospel to all men, in season and out of season. God takes care of insuring the Gospel accomplishes everything He wills.

By virtue of Scripture being God's holy word and His instructions for correct living, then all the world profits by its proclamation.

But most assuredly, all whom have been appointed to eternal life will hear the Gospel with ears given by God, know the truth with a new heart given by God, and understand that their salvation has come about because Jesus Christ has mercifully paid for their sins in total, eternally, once for all time, as God ordained from before the foundation of the world.

"And when the gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48

77 posted on 01/24/2007 5:39:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
It doesn't need to "prove" anything.

So you agree then that the subtitle of the thread is inaccurate?

81 posted on 01/24/2007 6:39:28 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; GCC Catholic; Quix

I was doing a study on another subject and came across this interesting essay on Augustine's thoughts on the supremecy of the scriptures.


The Libri Carolini was drawn up by Theodulf of Orléans (c.760-821)—one of the key theologians of the Carolingian church and the author of the well-known hymn “All glory, laud, and honour”—in 790-793 and then later revised by him with the help of, among others, Alcuin of York (c.732-804)—the private tutor to Charlemagne and the head of the palace school at Aachen. It was a well-argued response by the Latin-speaking Carolingian Church to the iconodulist decrees of the Second Council of Nicaea (787). In essence, the Libri Carolini sought to refute this council’s advocacy of the use of icons as vehicles of worship and argument that such icons deserved the identical adoration as due to God. In light of recent discussions about worship and the so-called contemporary inability to primarily use words—notably the sermon—as a vehicle for worship, it has some interesting observations to add to these discussions.

Theodulf was a Visigothic churchman who was deeply influenced by the writings of Augustine, particularly the latter’s De doctrina christiana. This Augustinian work, which deals broadly with hermeneutics and was often treated as a manual for preachers in the early Middle Ages, provided Theodulf with the resources to argue that the Bible alone is “the material object to which the Christian can turn to gain knowledge of the spiritual realm, because it was granted by God for this purpose” [Celia Chazelle, “ ‘Not in Painting but in Writing’: Augustine and the Supremacy of the Word in the Libri Carolini” in Edward D. English, ed., Reading and Wisdom. The De Doctrina Christiana of Augustine in the Middle Ages (Notre Dame/London: University of Notre Dame Press, 1995), 7]. Augustine was fairly severe on artistic representation. He argued that it was a “useless institution” that the serious student of Scripture needed to avoid. Relying on this Augustinian work, Theodulf was thus convinced that the Greek Orthodox advocacy of icons was due to their poor understanding of the beauty and riches of Scripture. The latter has all that a believer needs.

Celia Chazelle, in the above-cited article, notes that Theodulf’s critique is also tied up with “the concept that writing in general has greater merit as an instrument of communication than does artistic depiction” (“Not in Painting but in Writing” in English, ed., Reading and Wisdom, 7). A picture, since it is material, does not partake of the spiritual realm. By definition, it must resemble that to which it refers and thus it cannot really inform its viewers about the realm of the Spirit. Words, on the other hand, are not so limited, for words are signs that do not have to resemble their subjects. And going along with this powerful advocacy of the written word and the supremacy of Scripture was an attempt to make Caorlingian society an increasingly literate culture.

Summing up the thrust of the argument of the Libri Carolini and its similarity to Augustine’s De doctrina christiana, Chazelle states:

“Both treatises insist on the supremacy of words as signs over all other forms of communication accessible to humans; both stress the difficulty, subtlety, and richness of written language, especially Scripture, and both maintain that the Christian who does not investigate the Bible’s language carefully or with sufficient grasp of the rules governing written language runs the danger of misinterpreting Scripture’s message. Both treatises make it clear that interest in artistic representations is incompatible with study of the Bible…” (“Not in Painting but in Writing” in English, ed., Reading and Wisdom, 12).

Posted by Michael A G Haykin at 2:17 PM


85 posted on 01/24/2007 7:00:41 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Amen, and Amen!

For by One Offering He hath Perfected Forever them that are Sanctified. (Heb.10:14)

86 posted on 01/24/2007 7:13:35 PM PST by Kitty Mittens (To God Be All Excellent Praise!)
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