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To: sitetest; incredulous joe
Thank you for your information, and for the information about DC cardinals in the post above that.

I think incredulous joe made a good point, and I realized that is what has been bothering me particularly about this whole thing with Pelosi. He said:

but I believe this thing with Pelosi is a bit of a different animal; while the likes of Kennedy, Kerry, Durbin and Mikulski shuck their faith on and off to serve themselves and their needs, Pelosi is actually trying to change the mindset of American Catholics as being a force for the pro-life cause. Pelosi offers a "Catholic alternative".

Teddy Kennedy doesn't even pretend to be a great Catholic, and doesn't really dwell on it much, but Pelosi does hold herself out as an example and implies that her version of Catholicism, with all the hard parts taken out, is just as good as Rome's. She'd make a fine Episcopalian, but she's not honest enough to do that, and instead is going to devote herself to confusing and misleading Catholics for political purposes.

I think Abp Wuerl has a particular duty to respond to her, even if he wants to give Kennedy et al. a pass.

I noticed that the talk he gave was to Communion and Liberation. My experience with them has been that while they are theologically conservative in some ways, they have retained that bizarre Italian attitude towards politics - left-wing, accomodationist, and not particularly pro-life - and don't seem to see any contradictions with some of their other positions.

46 posted on 01/16/2007 7:49:49 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

Dear livius,

"I noticed that the talk he gave was to Communion and Liberation. My experience with them... not particularly pro-life..."

Well, Archbishop Wuerl is deeply pro-life. He just doesn't see the contradiction between his pro-life principles and permitting deeply pro-abort Catholic politicians from actively participating in the life of the Church and the sacraments.

Unfortunately, at the grass roots level, at the level of in-the-pew Catholicism, I see the contradiction. I know pro-abort Catholics who go to church and have told me, "Well, heck, the bishops don't do anything about Ted Kennedy or [fill in the blank]. They must not be all THAT serious about it! If they don't do anything to these folks, then it must be true that one can be a good Catholic and still be in favor of a woman's choice."

I think they have a good argument, unfortunately.

It is the bishops, as a group, and bishops like Archbishop Wuerl, who must take the largest portion of blame for the defection of millions of Catholics in the United States on the issue of abortion.

We should pray for our bishops, first that they might become more genuinely Catholic, and second, that God may have mercy on them at their particular judgments.


sitetest


48 posted on 01/16/2007 8:42:14 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: livius; sitetest; Cicero

I view the decision of a Bishop to withhold the Eucharist from pro-abort politicians as their very own matter of conscience. It's not something that I would care to be put in the position of doing. I don't like the idea of potentially setting up a confrontation of sorts, which may not play out well, at the Altar.

That being said, I also would not take issue with a Bishop who decided to make a stand against these defiant creatures, and provided some measure and direction for how this might be implemented to his priests and extraordinary ministers.

I've heard good things about Burke and several other Church leaders in the Midwest. I'd almost be curious to see how such a chastisement would play out here in the east. I've actually never heard of a pro-abort politico being denied the Sacrament, under any circumstance. I think it would have little effect on Speaker Pelosi, Kerry or Durbin, but it might strike a chord in some of the "in the pew" Catholics. It would send a message.

I'm unsure how Wuerl could be otherwise Theologically conservative, while also being silent on the subject of abortion - one seems to run counter to the other.

I've grown weary of the whole trade union/social justice liberal ideologues. While I am surprised to hear that Wuerl is older than I had presumed (the Bishop looks to be in his early fifties) Wuerl's 65 years do not gain him access into a bloc of the Democratic party which has been effectively dead for 25 or more years. If he were in his 80's I might give the Bishop a little space for embracing the political vision that my mother adhered to until her death. No dice for Bishop Wuerl. I suspect that he came of age, politically, after the foundation of the modern Democratic Party, the Party of Death, had been laid. If he were a Democrat early he should have distanced himself from them, like so many other Catholics have done over the last three decades. Our Church needs leadership in this area, not blind loyalty to a political movement that no longer exists.

I'd like to be open minded - to wait and see about Wuerl - but I'm afraid that he is going to need to speak in a very clear voice next week to satisfy me. Seems that he has already given "Nancy" and the gang a free pass, in as much as he has stated that he will not do anything to discipline his wayward flock. Sort of makes one wonder what it would take?

In the end, I think it is more or less up to us, the rank and file laity, the faithfully flawed, the youth leaders and catechists to keep Nancy's emboldened Nuevo Garde of pro-abortion Catholics in check. Whether, with gentle persuasion or righteous anger. I feel certain any in this thread could identify the gifts the Lord has bestowed upon us.

As I will be in attendance next week when Wuerl speaks I will let you know what I think. If I am not satisfied I will find his subordinates and tweak them. I will do this with courtesy and respect, but I will aslo make them defend that which is indefensible.

It seems a little crazy to suggest, but if you happen to be at the March for Life in DC. Let me know how I might identify you in the off chance that we might meet. I will be chaperoning a group of 30 to 40 middle school students from St. Thomas More in Buckeystown (this is where I used to teach). We will be wearing gold scarves and I will be wearing a green (yes, green) Baltimore Orioles cap unless it is bitter cold, in which case I will doff a blue Diocese of Baltimore Pro-life knit cap.

I hope I see some FReepers there. It's going to be a great day!


66 posted on 01/16/2007 7:04:08 PM PST by incredulous joe ("Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio,...")
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