Posted on 01/06/2007 7:13:58 AM PST by Titanites
The Bible: Important Translations of the Bible
Septuagint and Catholic Bible
The Septuagint (which comes from the Latin for 70, "septuaginta") was a translation of the Hebrew Books of the Old Testament into Greek, by 70 Jewish scholars. The translation became necessary when it was found that most of the Israelites in exile, especially as a result of the Babylonian Captivity of 586-536 B.C., did not know Hebrew, but wanted to read the sacred books. The work was done in Alexandria, Egypt, sometime between 250 B.C. and 100 B.C.. This translation was warmly welcomed by Jews outside Palestine, as was read by many Gentiles. Consequently, many Gentiles were familiar with the important ideas in the Old Testament and were thus prepared to hear and accept the teachings of Jesus Christ.
In the early Church no list of inspired books had been accepted or approved. Christ, and then the Apostles, did not give us a list of books which were inspired. However, the Septuagint was extremely influential among Jews living outside Palestine (and some inside Palestine), and was the sacred writings adopted by the early Greek-speaking Christians. Throughout the New Testament there are more than 300 direct quotations or paraphrases from the Septuagint Bible out of some 350 Old Testament references. Scholars regard this as an indication that the Catholic Christian writers of the Apostolic Era had adopted the Septuagint as their own. The Christians took the Septuagint over so completely that the Jews decided to adopt their own version. This was done about 90 A.D.. The Council of Hippo (393), the Council of Carthage (397), and Pope Innocent I (405) listed the 46 books of the Septuagint as inspired. The Catholic, Greek, Russian and other Orthodox Old Testaments are based on the Septuagint.
Vulgate
The Vulgate is the Latin version of the Bible prepared by St. Jerome (382-404), at the request of Pope St. Damasus I. He translated the Old Testament directly from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, and revised the existing Latin text of the New Testament. "Vulgate" means "common" or "popular", since Latin was the popular language in Europe at the time. This translation was done in a language they could understand. Very few knew how to read. The Vulgate was used through the centuries and was declared the official Latin text of the Bible for Catholics by the Council of Trent (1545-63). It was from the Vulgate that almost all English Catholic translations were made until the middle of the 20th century, when scholars began to use original sources. It remained the official Latin text of the Bible for the Catholic Church until Pope John Paul II replaced it with the New Vulgate in 1979.
Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. This belief is based on their acceptance of the fact that the Catholic Church had the authority to declare which books were inspired and should be included in the list of sacred books or "Canon", and which should not be included.
The Catholic Church knew it had this authority and guidance because:
1. "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth" (John 14:16-17)
2. "However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, as come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13)
3. "... I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20)
4. "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 16:19)
5. "... it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets" (Ephesians 3:5)
6. "... the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)
For more than 1500 years the Catholic Church has accepted and taught that these 73 books of the Bible are inspired and make up the list of sacred books. Jesus gave His Apostles and Church the gift of the Holy Spirit when He said. "... 'Receive the Holy Spirit.'" (John 20:22). Jesus also said, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). It is impossible that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would lead the Church in an error for 1900 years. Such a promise was made to the Church alone. Martin Luther decided to reject that and to accept the Hebrew Bible since it did not have the 2nd Book of Maccabees which says, "It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sin." (2 Maccabees 12:46 NAB). Luther did not agree with praying for the dead. He did not accept seven books of the Old Testament, and also did not accept these New Testament books: Hebrews, 2 John, 3 John, James, Jude, 2 Peter and Revelation. These books contained teachings which did not agree with his teaching. By the year 1700, however, Lutheran scholars had restored these books to the New Testament. We must remember that Jesus promised that His Spirit would be with His Church (John 14:11-12) and that the Spirit of Truth would guide the Church into all truth (John 16:13). Paul said, "... which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). So the Spirit of Truth guides the Church in all truth, not an individual person.
Hebrew Scriptures and Protestant Bible
Jewish scholars set up four criteria which sacred books had to pass in order to be in the Jewish canon (official list of sacred writings):
1. They had to be in harmony with the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible).
2. They had to have been written before the time of Nehemiah (c.400 B.C.).
3. They had to have been written in Hebrew.
4. They had to have been written in Palestine.
These criteria excluded the seven books which are not in the Hebrew canon or Protestant Old Testament of today. These books are Judith, Tobit, 1st Maccabees, 2nd Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), and Baruch. (Taking the first letter of each book, we have the name J.T. MacWeb - an easy way to remember them.)
The Protestant Old Testament is the same as the Hebrew canon, and their New Testament is the same as the Catholic New Testament. Most Protestant Bibles, while not accepting those seven books as inspired, are now including them at the end of the Old Testament, as did the 1611 King James Version (Authorized Version).
*So, the protestants relied upon those who rejected Jesus to decide what is and isn't Christian belief. It can not be said that is an uninteresting idea.
If the KJV was good enough for the Apostle Paul that should be proof enough! Afterall when Jesus gave the great commission he handed his disciples the KJV to go and preach the word with!
;-)))
Which is annoying (nothing personal, gentlemen ...) because it's different from what we've memorized!
*So, the protestants relied upon those who rejected Jesus to decide what is and isn't Christian belief.
And, that is a good example of why I usually avoid these threads. You were doing fine, and I found what you had added to the conversation very informative. But, you just couldn't avoid the "my version of Christianity is better than yours, nyah, nyah, nyah". If your intention was to shut down communication, you did a great job.
Would you mind elaborating on this comment? Thanks.
Isn't the author of Revelations referring to adding or subtracting words from the Book of Revelations, rather than referring to adding or subtracting from the other books of the Bible ?
The Reformation produced a scholar's Bible, and preaching became largely a commentary on that text. In protestantism there is no sacerdotal priesthood. In the First Century, after the destruction of the Temple, the priestly class disappeared, or at least lost its primary role. Anglicanism is an exception to this, but the Protestant minister is, like the Rabbi, primarily a teacher of Scripture. There are of course considerable differences, arising from the different natures of the communities.
What happened to the Rho?
That's the reasonable interpretation, yes, since "The Bible" as we know it did not exist at the time of the composition of the Book of Revelation.
It just disappeared. Will have to put it back.
There!
>> "After all, if Christ did not care about the specific words of Scripture, why should we?...If Christ used the Septuagint then you can put the Bible in your own words in either a paraphrase or your own translation." <<
The problem with this reasoning is that the Septuagint is 90% closer to the New Testament wordings than any reasonable thranslation of the Hebrew into Greek. It's not the Septuagint that is the messy translation, it's the Masoretic text which is!
+
If you want on (or off) this Catholic and Pro-Life ping list, let me know!
>> So, the protestants relied upon those who rejected Jesus to decide what is and isn't Christian belief. <<
It's worse than that! The Jews convened the Council of Jamnia in part to quell Messianic fervor which they blamed for the Christian problem, as well as the vengence of the Romans against the Zealot revolt, which led to the destruction of the Temple. Therefore, one must keep in mind that the Jews' problem with the deuterocanonical books (called apocrypha by Luther as a deliberate attempt to mislead people) was that they prophecised Christ in the most precise manner!
Probably they see the differences in the KJV and the LXX, and suspect the tricky Greeks hoodwinked them :).
This guy has had to many "magic brownies."
>>
from Wikipedia: The Waldensians or Vaudois are a Protestant Christian denomination believing in poverty and austerity, founded around 1173, promoting true poverty, public preaching and the literal interpretation of the scriptures. Declared heretical, the movement was brutally persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church during the 12th and 13th centuries and nearly totally destroyed, but the Waldensian Church survives to this day. <<
Often the Waldensians are cited by Protestants as examples of a continuing "true church," to counter the notion that Protestantism is a modernism. The problem is that Waldensians were harsh ascetics, who, though iconoclasts like many modern Protestants, also held many ideas that Protestants would consider downright apostatic.
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I guess we're all fallible. Still, one expects more.
Could you run that through the Garble Inhibitor? It looks like you said something really interesting, but I can't tell for sure.
Thank you for providing the explanation.
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