To: Rhadaghast; bornacatholic
There are countless millions who follow Christ yet hold no allegance to Rome. You do need to make up your mind if we are or are not saved. If saved, then we are part of God's Church.
The post-concilar RCC has twisted and tortured its previously proclaimed doctrinal statements to the point of absurdity. When the "there is no salvation outside the Church" and "one must be subject to the Pope for salvation" doctrines were put forth, there was no confusion. Unless you were a card-carying Catholic, you were damned. That has now been twisted and contorted. Now, the Church essentially states that anyone that is saved is saved through the Church. Not only Protestants, but even those rejecting Christ as Saviour, such as the Muslims, are potentially saved. About the only person that can't be saved is one who, knowing that the Church is necessary for salvation, leaves it none the less. Tell me, who, "knowing" that the Church is necessary for salvation would leave it? Everyone else is potentially "savable" (by the Church, of course). Apparently they get "credit" for lack of knowledge or understanding. Ignorance is bliss, apparently. This false ecumenism of the modern RCC is what bothers me most. It is dangerously universalist and leads to a thwarting of the Great Commission. Blessed Mother Teresa, who will almost certaily be a Saint one day, was an outright universalist and pantheist; apparently this is A-OK at the Vatican. Some frightening quotes from Blessed Teresa:
The following is from an interview with a Catholic nun, "Sister" Ann, who worked in Kathmandu, Nepal, with "Mother" Teresa's organization Missionaries of Charity. The interview was conducted 11/23/84 at the Pashupati Temple.
Q: Do you believe if they die believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?
A: Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to God, ... So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved.
Q: Today it does not seem that the Catholic Church is trying to convert anymore. I know that John Paul II is saying now that those of other religions are saved. You do not believe they are lost anyway, right?
A: No, they are not lost. They are saved according to their faith, you know. If they believe whatever they believe, that is their salvation.
There you have it. Apparently, sincerity of belief and strength of faith, regardless of the object of belief and faith, is all that is needed for salvation. No doubt, Muslim suicide bombers have a strong faith; enough that they are willing to die for it. I suppose the Church recognizes that faith and steps in to provide for their salvation?
159 posted on
12/31/2006 8:46:23 AM PST by
armydoc
To: armydoc
Your post 159 is a good question. I picked up my catechism to look for an answer, here's what I found.
CCC 846
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his body.
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation; the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will s they know it through the dictates of their conscience-those too may achieve eternal salvation.
"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith whithouth which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
160 posted on
12/31/2006 9:15:34 AM PST by
Cap'n Crunch
(Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
To: armydoc
The post-concilar RCC has twisted and tortured its previously proclaimed doctrinal statements to the point of absurdity. When the "there is no salvation outside the Church" and "one must be subject to the Pope for salvation" doctrines were put forth, there was no confusion. Unless you were a card-carying Catholic, you were damned. That has now been twisted and contorted.
*Wrong. You are not a Catholic and you are confused about what the Church has always taught. I post a link for you explaining how the Council knit together to, seemingly, contradictory, Traditions.
Now, the Church essentially states that anyone that is saved is saved through the Church. Not only Protestants, but even those rejecting Christ as Saviour, such as the Muslims, are potentially saved. About the only person that can't be saved is one who, knowing that the Church is necessary for salvation, leaves it none the less. Tell me, who, "knowing" that the Church is necessary for salvation would leave it? Everyone else is potentially "savable" (by the Church, of course). Apparently they get "credit" for lack of knowledge or understanding. Ignorance is bliss, apparently. This false ecumenism of the modern RCC is what bothers me most. It is dangerously universalist and leads to a thwarting of the Great Commission. Blessed Mother Teresa, who will almost certaily be a Saint one day, was an outright universalist and pantheist; apparently this is A-OK at the Vatican. Some frightening quotes from Blessed Teresa:
*She was neither.
There you have it. Apparently, sincerity of belief and strength of faith, regardless of the object of belief and faith, is all that is needed for salvation. No doubt, Muslim suicide bombers have a strong faith; enough that they are willing to die for it. I suppose the Church recognizes that faith and steps in to provide for their salvation?
To: armydoc
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