Three Reasons the Church’s Enemies Hate The Immaculate Conception

TFP ^ | 12.08.06 | Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

[Campion]

In the Roman Catholic understanding, it seems that Mary, who according to Roman doctrine had been exempted from the guilt of original sin [the Orthodox do not accept that humans share the guilt of the first sin but, rather, only the consequences] before all eternity, and thus could not have sinned.

It may "seem" that way, but, to the best of my knowledge, that's not what we believe.

It's probably best not to create strawmen by drawing assumptions about what others' doctrine "seems" to say. Better to deal with what they actually do say.

[kawaii]

See post 28.

I posted from the OCA site only to articulate what the Orthodox DO beleive, not so much what the Catholics do or don't.

[trisham]

Here we go, AGAIN.

************

Indeed. The Church had me at: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church". :)

All that it teaches I accept. Some of these discussions are interesting, but in the end, I believe.

[kawaii]

Even the NewAdvent link i posted to you says the Catholics beleive Christ had 2 natures both human and divine.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks for posting this, I will read it in its entirely later today.

I would also add two other reasons, slightly different tone:

1. They hate conception.

2. They hate purity and moral cleanliness of any kind.

[jkl1122]

All that it teaches I accept.

Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[Salvation]

** because it is false and that is all the reason I need.**

You are wrong. Why would the Angel Gabriel have addressed Mary in the following way if she were impure?

"Hail, Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with you.

[stfassisi]

""they won't understand the doctrines of Mary, which are merely recognition of Mary's special place in salvation history that reflects on Christology and Ecclesiology.""



The Mistake they are making is trying to omit Mary from the New Covenant,this can,t be done because Mary, in union with the sacrifice of her Son, offered to the Eternal Father for the salvation of humankind her maternal rights and love. She, by special privilege, is the unique all-holy member of God's people and in her the Church already at its foundation realized itself as the all-resplendent Bride of Jesus Christ

[Religion Moderator]

The language does indeed press the envelope - but that is tolerable on an open thread providing it does not tip over into hate mongering. Jack Chick materials, Jesus-is-Lord.com, Christian Identity (KKK, Aryan nations) anti-Semitic websites and the like are hate mongering and are not allowed on this forum.

[Salvation]

Another hijacked thread.

Lord, have mercy.

Christ, have mercy.

Lord, have mercy.

[Campion]

Even the NewAdvent link i posted to you says the Catholics beleive Christ had 2 natures both human and divine.

Of course we do. Actually, it's more correct to say he has both human and divine natures; present tense.

Not sure what your point is, sorry.

[AliVeritas]

Amen. We both know sola scriptura isn't in the bible.

I find it hard to believe... how many just throw tradition to the wind and have never delved into the fathers of the church. As if the NT were in the upper room...

[Salvation]

**I would also add two other reasons, slightly different tone:

1. They hate conception.

2. They hate purity and moral cleanliness of any kind.**

You are so right!

[Religion Moderator]

A thread like this one, which is "anti" another confession cannot be "hijacked" - it is open to rebuttal.

[Salvation]

Interesting list of materials there. (I am not aware of many of them.)
Are they basically hate-doctrines? Protestant sites?

I see some as oxymorons. How could KKK be connecting with Christian Identity in any way at all?

[trisham]

It's trying.

[aruanan]

Three Reasons the Church’s Enemies Hate The Immaculate Conception

No, it was simply an ad hoc solution to a non-existent problem, and has itself caused lots of problems in the following centuries.

[kawaii]

You opined to sitetest that the Orthodox understand the Trinity differently...

[adiaireton8]

Campion, I don't have a problem with the term "human person" because I do not see it as necessarily incompatible with "divine person" and/or intrinsically Nestorian. If I had been alive during the life of Christ on earth, and someone had pointed at Christ and asked me: "Is He a human person?" I would (let's say) reply, "Yep." And if they then asked, "Is He a divine person?" I would reply, "Yep." And if they then asked, "Is He two persons?" I would reply, "Nope." If they asked, "How can He be a human person and a divine person, and not be two persons?" I would reply, "Because He is one person with two natures. He is a *divine* person, in fact the Second Person of the Trinity, because of His divine nature. But it is also true that He is a *human* person because of His human nature. By 'human person' I mean that He is truly a person and that He is truly a human, and that His personhood is human in virtue of having a human nature. By saying that He is a 'human person' I do not mean that his personhood is *merely* human."

What do you think about that? Do you think the term 'human person' is innocuous in that sense, but that it is just too intrinsically misleading? :-)

-A8

[aruanan]

Shouldn't there be a reason 4; Because the basis for it wasn't articulated until St Augustine in 300-something, even he advised against using it to state something like the doctrine of Immaculate conception, was debated as recently as the 1200s be renowned Catholic Saints like Thomas Aquinas, and was not even officially made a Roman Catholic teaching until 1854?

That's a good reason.