Vatican archaeologists unearth St. Paul's tomb

Pravda ^ | December 6, 2006

[Campion]

He would want folks to venerate CHRIST....not him.

If you're merely venerating Christ you're giving him far less honor and glory than He deserves.

[babble-on]

You doana frotten us Englisha pigdogs! Go and boil your bottoms on a silly person! I blow mah nose at yew, so-called Arthur King, and all your silly English kannnnnnnnnniggits!

[ichabod1]

I'd go along with that.

[rabidralph]

Galahad: What a strange person.
A: (getting mad) Now look here, my good ma--

I hate to break up our little chat, but I have chores to do this morning. Thanks for the giggles! French Castle scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[ArrogantBustard]

We live in an age of antiheros and victims.

And that's a problem in and of itself.

That painting is not a product of our time, and I find it very 'problematic'. The style is borrowed from Byzantine church art, in which God is placed in the center of all things (where He really is), and the Saints and Angels are placed around Him (where they really are). That painting puts NOTHING in the center, but places George Washington in the place of highest prominence. It seems to imply either that Nothing is god, or that George Washington is god. If you're looking for examples of apparent 'ancestor worship' or 'idolatry' in the form of worshipping mere men or anthropomorphised ideas, look no farther than Washington, DC.

[babble-on]

especially nice since a similar degree of ethnic antipathy and lack of communication was happening on the thread around us.

[Ditto]

But it would be wrong and ignorant for anyone to cite this as further indication that Roman Catholics worship idols.

When you're done thumping your Bible at us heathens, add a Webster's dictionary to your reading list so you can understand the difference between the words venerate and worship.

Ever been to Arlington, or Gettysburg National Cemetery? Do you "venerate" the memories of those buried there, or is that "idol worship"?

[onedoug]

As interesting by testiness of the comments. Thanks.

[Ditto]

He would want folks to venerate CHRIST....not him.

Personally, I choose to Worship Christ, but I do venerate the memories of people like George Washington, Ben Franklin and Roberto Clemente --- and St. Paul too.

English --- it's a good language with lots of words. I recommend it.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Have you ever seen the painting in the US Capitol dome? "The Apotheosis of Washington" ...I find it ... disturbing."

Not to worry. That was just the "art style" of that era. Leaders were often depicted as "in the company" of various divinities and personified virtues.

[OpusatFR]

That will teach you to post something of importance, NYer!

Notice that the discovery, history and importance are lost in a snippy set of "Your Not the Boss of ME" posts.

[marshmallow]

I'm curious about one thing.

Do any of you have family members or relatives buried in the cemetery? You do? OK, second question. Do you do anything to beautify their graves? Place flowers, maybe? A cross, perhaps? Keep them clean and tidy?

Maybe you spend a little time there......praying.....thinking....

Would this be considered "worship" or somehow an insult to Almighty God? The very idea is nonsensical, isn't it?

So why should St. Paul be any different? This man was the apostle to the Gentiles. He brought us our faith and left us a rich deposit in sacred Scripture. Should we leave his tomb buried under mounds of earth and rubble or should we give it the place of honor which it deserves, as we would our own relatives?

It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

Some of the comments on this thread are just plain scary and illustrate, yet again, why a Bible is a dangerous weapon in the hands of many people.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks NYer.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

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[Antoninus]

Would the Apostle Paul himself be in favor of people venerating his casket? Answer: NO!

You've spoken to him, then?

[editor-surveyor]

"Wow!
How amazing that you have a direct pipeline to St.Paul.
Are you channeling him after a seance or something like that?"

No need to channel him, just read his epistles; he rebuked those who attempted to venerate him and Apollos when he was alive, so I'm sure that he would be doubly offended now that he is dead.

[Antoninus]

Isn't 'ancestor worship' an ancient pagan practice?

Ah, someone will have to explain to you the difference between "veneration" and "worship." I knew the difference in about 6th grade. And for what it's worth, even the ancient Hellenes (so far as I know) didn't "worship" their ancestors.

[Antoninus]

But it would be wrong and ignorant for anyone to cite this as further indication that Roman Catholics worship idols.

And it would be wrong of me to compare this willful ignorance of Catholic teaching to that of the Iconoclasts and Muslims...

[Campion]

he rebuked those who attempted to venerate him and Apollos when he was alive

What passage are you talking about?

[RobbyS]

Well, I have venerated the tomb of George Washington, In fact hundred of visitors to Mount Vernon do so every day. I venerate the graves of my parents. I should stop because of your peculiar theologcal doctrines, which I do not think correct?

[Antoninus]

The veneration of relics of the saints is found in the early history of the Church. A letter written by the faithful of the Church in Smyrna in the year 156 provides an account of the death of St. Polycarp, their bishop, who was burned at the stake. The letter reads, "We took up the bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy, and to celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom."

This is not to mention that many Protestants as well as Catholics believe that the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Christ. If not for the veneration of relics, this artifact would have been discarded, lest it provide a temptation for the Faithful to worship the item rather than Christ.