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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; wmfights; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan; ...
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9

Kosta: here is our most fundamental difference. We believe that God's grace is given us freely and not from anything we can, or could, do. If I understand your sect correctly your belief is much more along the lines of Judaism, in that you believe you are found righteous before God based on the lifetime of your works. Thus I look at your sect and see a works based belief in salvation.

I'm not sure whether you believe the Holy Spirit indwells believers, or not. We do and we further believe that it is because of the indwelling Holy Spirit convicting us in our sin and guiding us that we mature and are sanctified.

9,948 posted on 02/10/2007 7:30:09 AM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
Kosta: here is our most fundamental difference. We believe that God's grace is given us freely and not from anything we can, or could, do. If I understand your sect correctly your belief is much more along the lines of Judaism, in that you believe you are found righteous before God based on the lifetime of your works

"you are found righteous before God based on the lifetime of your works" in faith

First among the "works" of righteousness is a life of repentance and prayer, in humility; in loving your God and loving your enemies.

Life-long 'works' of faith are an expression of, and not the cause of our righteousness. Life in faith leads us to spiritual maturity and not triumphalism. The 'works' of faith involve incessant gratitude and deep conviction that no matter what we 'get' at the end will be merciful and just (regardless what we may think of it).

It's not the Spirit but God's energies that work in us. His blessings are like any asset — you can squander them or you can turn them into more blessings in God's name. The Spirit guides us and ever-so-gently returns us to proper ways after we stray, patiently and lovingly.

You are made righteous at Baptism, as your sins are wiped clean. You are made righteous after Confession and Communion until we fall again in sin. You are made righteous in repentance and prayer. The more you 'do' these works the less you will sin.

The more you fit the Beatitudes, mercy, purity in heart, etc. the more you will be just in God's eyes, even if you consider yourself the worst sinner of all.

Yes, we believe that God made it possible for us to be saved. We do not believe that God pays all the bills. That's just too convenient and easy and leads to nothing but triumphalistic self-righteousness and arrogance.

We are all prodigal sons. For us to be made righteous, God expects us to 'do' more than just believe.

9,954 posted on 02/10/2007 8:49:04 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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