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We talk different languages. By ocean bottom I mean ocean of AIR, about 4/5ths nitrogen(N2)and 1/5th oxygen(O2). You see, physically you are a bottom dwelling fish in an OCEAN of some 10^15 tons of AIR. Jesus referred to people as "fish", an early christian symbol was a FISH, remember? The first disciples were FISHermen.

Genetically you are descended from FISH. Way back when you were a lung fish crawling out of the water ocean onto a sandy beach, escaping PREDATORS. Many, many evolutionary iterations later you are STILL a FISH of sorts : bony spine, lungs; even our cross-wired right/left brains were already there in FISH.

You've even internalized ocean currents : your blood flow. Ever TASTED your blood, salty as the ocean, yes? Look at vast crowds of people walking along an urban street, how different is that from a stream of fish swimming in an ocean?

You need to read Erdman's critique of the bible, the obviously outlandish numbers. 600,000 MEN leave with moses and go into the desert? NONSENSE! It was more like 600 or even 6,000; but NOT 600,000! With wives + 2 children/couple that's over 2.4 MILLION people. READ the subsequent exodus account and it's not talking about 2.4 MILLION people, 2400 people sounds more rational.

Or Jesus being crucified on good friday. THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS in the grave, remember? The early catholics got it WRONG! He was crucified on THURSDAY, the day before the high holy day of preparation(friday)before the saturday sabbath. THAT makes THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS.

Or Jesus' birthday on Dec 25(3 days before the winter solstice and the "birth" of a new year - days get longer again). That was the Roman God JUPITER'S birthday, thus JESUS replaced JUPITER in early catholic mythology. He was ACTUALLY born in early january as the eastern orthodox church believes.

Two biblical accounts of Saul/Paul's being ZAPPED by our lord on the road to damascus, but they don't agree! How come? Simple : these are VERBAL accounts passed down through the years, the generations; and finally written down, in TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS!

So you see what I mean : HUMAN mis-communication of GOD'S WORD. Look at any average e-mail : how many mis-spellings, diction mistakes, do you see? The same fumble bunny-scribes were writing the bible way back when.

So you can thunderously POUND on the bible, or hide under it like linus under his blanket, but if you were an honest, righteous man, worthy of heaven, you would see it as a grab bag of human mis-translation; a glimmer of eternal truth here and there, and a whole lot of errata that is a result of imperfect human COPYING.

Xerox a sheet of text on paper, then xerox that copy, then another and another, a 1000 times. With the 1000th copy you have a meaningless blur. Go ahead, try it with a ream of paper and all afternoon in front of a xerox machine.

Or why does a new and improved bible come out every decade or so? New standard revised, etc, etc. And thus you see why modern, scientifically trained minds see the bible as fairy tales, full of errata, the obviously false numbers...you'll NEVER convert them until YOU have the righteous COURAGE to correct the flaws in the bible. And the koran, with its terrorist fanatics, is out there, as a COMPETITOR!

So, get your own house in order before you do battle with them. What did our lord say about the splinter in your brother's eye, and the LOG in yours?

Hi Timer,

WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ?????. PLEASE STOP YELLING AT ME.

Now, that's out of my system so let's continue.

Of course we talk two different languages. You have a scientific mind and I'm an artist. But the point about you meaning walking on an ocean of air instead of the "bottom of the ocean" is tripe, as you've shown by going on to tell me I descended from fish (I am a Pisces however, does that count?). Do you really connect Jesus telling us to fish for men as meaning we were fish? Do you really think that because we have blood flowing, or that it taste salty, or we walk in crowds in a flow that we were fish. Gosh, if you believe that you might even fall for the really ridiculous idea that apes are our ancestors. Nah, not even you could think that.

You are absolutely correct about the crucifixion. It should be Passover, not easter Sunday. If you have a problem about how it has been passed down you should take it up with the church, with the MEN that decided to change it and not follow what the BIBLE said.

I also agree that the birth of Christ was not on December 25th. Not only was it Jupiter's birthday but almost all the other pagan god's as well. The really strange and wonderful thing though is that was the date of the conception of Christ. His birth was not in January but was September 29, the date of The Feast of Tabernacles. The dates used to compute Mary's pregnancy are found in Luke. Again, don't say the Bible is misleading you, men did that.

Born on the Feast of Tabernacles, crucified on Passover. Do you think that was by chance?

As far as Saul/Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus. I didn't know there was a discrepency, please quote verses. I do know there are differences in the telling of Christ's story. Different people see things in a different way, example: us. In the telling of a story we would write it in a different way, from our perspective.

I agree with you on the numbers. They sound way out of whack to me too. That sounds like a job for a Hebrew scholar to work on and explain.

I cannot agree with you about the rest though. The text has remained the same, it has not changed. Changes came about when man translated. Even the King James Bible, that I love, had a disclaimer that it tried to faithfully copy but mistakes were made. The Hebrew manuscripts cannot change because they are locked in with the Massorah. For us today the best Bible to use is the King James because you can use the concordance with it to see the meaning of the Hebrew & Greek words. The new and improved Bibles come out every few years because MEN want them to, not God.

Timer, I'm not hiding under any blanket. I am seeking truth and as we both have pointed out, the mistakes come from man. Nor am I thunderously POUNDING on a Bible but I do not see it as you do. It is not full of mistakes with a glimmer of truth here and there.

The fairy tales you see aren't in the Bible but some churches teach them. It's up to us to understand the truth without trashing God's Word. He "foretold us all things".

You have a beautiful mind Timer but you make it difficult for people to learn from it.

Thank you for your reply.