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To: kosta50; wmfights; Quix; Kolokotronis; klossg; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Isn't calling something a free gift an oxymoron?

Technically, no. There is such a thing as a "conditional" gift. For example, a man gives a woman an engagement ring. It is a gift, but it is considered "conditional" on the woman actually going through with the wedding, not just her promise to get married. I am not certain, and Kolo can correct me, but I think most courts would give the ring back to the man if anything went wrong. That's not true in every case, though.

Anyway, in this light, when WM speaks of the "free gift" of grace, he makes a legitimate distinction because God does not give us that grace with any expectation of performance of anything from ourselves. It is truly free with no strings attached. (There are no takebacks on saving grace.) The nature of the grace certainly causes things to happen that God wants, but these things are not of ourselves.

8,631 posted on 02/02/2007 1:16:51 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; wmfights; Quix; Kolokotronis; klossg; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
when WM speaks of the "free gift" of grace, he makes a legitimate distinction because God does not give us that grace with any expectation of performance of anything from ourselves. It is truly free with no strings attached. (There are no takebacks on saving grace.)

Yeah that's what I meant. ;-)

Thanks FK, I really could not have said it as well.

Kosta I didn't respond because I've been very rushed with business lately and it "seemed" like you wanted to play semantics rather than look at the broader issue.

8,641 posted on 02/02/2007 2:12:51 PM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; Quix; Kolokotronis; klossg; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
There is such a thing as a "conditional" gift. For example, a man gives a woman an engagement ring

Well, if you want to consider it a "gift," that's fine. I could say it's something else, but I'll leave it at that. This doesn't change the definition of the word, gift. I will not quote dictionaries on this. The meaning is self-evident. A gift must be free to be a gift.

when WM speaks of the "free gift" of grace, he makes a legitimate distinction because God does not give us that grace with any expectation of performance of anything from ourselves The phrase "free gift" used biblically comes from KJV. It does not exist in the Greek original. It is yet another example of "alternative" reading of the Bible and assuming that it was there all along.

The word used is actually charisma. If anything, undeserved mercy is a closer translation. As such, I am not sure it is unconditional. God pardons us, but with a caveat.

8,644 posted on 02/02/2007 2:37:53 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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