Replies

Thank you so much for your reply!

Truly, Schroeder has broken the age of the universe into days, which I aver is entirely appropriate since reconciling Genesis 1 and physical evidence in nature was his objective - and God spoke Genesis 1 in terms of days and notably, the first day.

It is the observer problem again - I agree with Schroeder and assert we ought to be reading Genesis 1 with God as the observer, not man.

Your point about sun and vegetation does not hold if we accept that the Genesis account refers to the creation of not the physical realm alone, but both the physical and the spiritual realms (emphasis mine):

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. - Genesis 2:4-5

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. - Gen 2:9

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. - Rev 2:7

If in referring to King David you are speaking of a thousand years as a day unto the Lord (Psalms 90:4) – I would offer the following back story from another thread:

Adam did not have a conventional "birthday" because he was specially created (Genesis 2 and Day 6 in Genesis 1).

My assertion is that he was created in heaven, in the spiritual realm, and placed in the Garden of Eden there. His “clock” began running when he was banished to mortality in Genesis 3.

The sixth day from the inception space/time coordinates is a quarter billion years ago from our space/time coordinates (Scripture and inflationary theory and relativity.)

On the Adamic clock (our space/time coordinates) - the day in which Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the first 1,000 years of the 7,000 allotted to Adamic man – the last 1,000 is Christ’s millennial reign to come. (Emphasis mine)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. – Gen 2:17

Adam didn’t die on day 1 of his mortal clock nor did he die on the 6th day of Creation week.

Rather, Adam died at age 930 in the first 1,000 year “day” according to Scripture which corresponds to Creation week. Or to put it another way, 6 days of creation plus 1 day of rest corresponds to 6,000 years of Adamic man plus 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth (the Messiah era.)

That is the Jewish interpretation (Sanhedrin 97a; Avodah Zarah Sa) of this Psalm attributed to Moses:

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. – Psalms 90:4

It was the understanding among the Jews in Peter’s day:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. - 2 Pet 3:8

And among the early church, too as we see in the ancient manuscript, the Epistle of Barnabas 15:3-5 (among others):

He speaks of the Sabbath at the beginning of the Creation, "And God made in six days the works of His hands and on the seventh day He made an end, and He rested on the seventh day, and He sanctified it. Consider, my children what this signifies: That He made an end in six days. The meaning of it is this: that in six thousand years the Creator will bring all things to an end, for with Him one day is a thousand years. He Himself testifies, saying, Behold the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, all things shall be accomplished. And He rested on the seventh day: He means this, that when His Son shall come He will destroy the season of the wicked one, and will judge the godless, and will change the sun and the moon and the stars, and then He will truly rest on the seventh day.

It is also a really big clue in Scripture that we should be looking at Creation week from God's aspect as creator and not from our aspect as creatures, i.e. the Schroeder point.

The way all of this reconciles beautifully is the assertion that the Creation was not just the physical realm, but the spiritual realm as well. (Gen 1:1) The Garden of Eden, like the Temple, is in the Spiritual realm (albeit in both cases there is a “type” in the physical realm.)

I do find your interest in the Kaballah to be fascinating. The ancient Jewish Kaballah is of keen interest to me - but not the new age version of it which has hijacked some of the mysticism and incorporated it into something "new" (and wrongful.)

By tradition, the Jewish Kaballah was passed down orally from Adam to now and the secrets of it - in particular the powers associated with certain sounds - were never to be written. Some (but not all) of the Kaballist mysticism was recorded centuries ago - and even now some aver to reveal these ancient oral secrets.

But I do not dismiss the Jewish Kaballah out-of-hand because I lean on the indwelling Spirit to guide me into Truth. As an example, the teaching that the firmament is a boundary and not a geometric location per se is Kaballistic in origin. And that rings true in the Spirit. But the extension of it, that the firmament is the speed of light neither rings true nor false for me.

Likewise, I suspect that much of what has been captured for millennia in the pseudepigraphral manuscripts have their origin in this Jewish oral tradition.

Some of these are directly referenced in Scripture, such as in Jude – others are carried forward in tradition. But in any case, the Spirit draws me to certain points in the pseudepigraphal books – such as what provoked Abraham to be called by God, how Job got into a mess with Satan, the back story of Genesis 6 and the Noah Flood and so on. And likewise, I am drawn to certain teaching of the Jewish Kaballah.

After reading Schroeder and the reply you gave on this thread I find I have learned much, however I don't agree with all of it. As he said, "it's obvious that we have to dig deeper to get the information out" and it sounds as if we all have our shovels in our hands.

When Schroder talks abour Rosh Hashana commemorating the creation of the soul of human life, from the creation of the soul of Adam he assumes that was on the 6th day. My reading of Gen.2:7 is that Adam, The Man Adam, was an 8th day creation. All the races, (man-mankind) were created on the 6th day and "created He him; male and female created He them."

Adam was not created but was formed (I don't really know what the difference is but that phrase is there for a reason) and Eve was not brought into being at the same time he was, as those were in 1:27.

In his paragraphs on "Natural history and human history" he states that Nachmanides considers the "days of old" as the 6 days of creation while the "years of many generations" is all the time of Adam forward. I believe the "Days of old" are from the first age of our earth. That was the age in which Satan rebelled and took 1/3 of God's children with him.

I love Schroeder's take on the Six Days and I believe those "days" are represented by the 1,000 years as stated in Psalms and Peter. My problem with that has always been the "morning and evening" if they were not actual days, even Lord's days of 1000 years. I didn't realize that the text stated "day one" instead of "the first day".

In his "What is a day" paragraphs,it was very interesting to see the Talmud explains darkness as black fire, black energy, a kind of energy that is so powerful you can't even see it, or darkness, the absence of light. This light is Christ and God divided light from the darkness, Christ from evil, Satan. He later states that the literal meaning of evening is "there was disorder". That chaos was Satan.

Another thought is that I don't believe the "Sages" should have excluded the six days of creation from the calendar or said that the entire text is parable. As far as reading Genesis 1 with God as the observer, not man - why, as it is written to man.

Please go deeper into why you believe Adam was created in heaven and placed in the garden. It stated that he was formed in the garden and all of our souls are from the spiritual realm, so I don't understand.

Your belief of "Therefore children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, all things shall be accomplished" I also believe. We're there now and only waiting to have all of God's elect sealed. Your comments here help that process.

Now, I'm going to read more Schroeder. I'll never understand the physics but he does write in a manner that promotes understanding - thank you so much for telling me about him.