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To: annalex

Annalex, you preach another gospel. Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Period.

Your arguments do not stand the test of Scripture. You ignore the vast majority to twist a minority. It is another gospel Annalex.

Christ's salvation was a gift. If we do one thing to contribute to it it isn't a gift any more, it is recompense.

Christ paid the debt in full. How dare anyone say it wasn't enough or complete.


8,238 posted on 01/31/2007 7:47:37 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger; annalex
Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Period.

Please define works - because it appears, from your subsequent writing - that you and Paul have different ideas on how we are saved...

"Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with God. For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another" Romans 2:4-15

This passage, immediately preceding Romans 3, destroys your idea of salvation. Paul here says a number of things that you seem to disagree with. For example, we are justified by something that we do... EVEN GENTILES are inhabited by the Spirit and CAN show the work of the law written in their hearts.

It would be quite amazing if Paul wrote this, and then, one chapter later, would say something totally opposite and deny it. That is why I ask you to define works, because I believe this is where you are confused.

Christ's salvation was a gift. If we do one thing to contribute to it it isn't a gift any more, it is recompense.

That is not what Romans 4:4 says:

"Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt."

Those who are trying to earn salvation are "working" - and will demand a wage. However, by "doing something", it doesn't follow that we will take this to God and demand a wage. This totally misunderstands that fact that God and man are in a covenantal relationship, a relationship of love, not a legal relationship. Thus, a person who responds to God's love by loving Him in return is doing what is expected from the faithful servant. This doesn't earn us anything. Nonetheless, we are considered just by God because of our positive response to His free gift - since the DOER of the Law is justified. Christ says the same thing...

"For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mat 5:20

"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Mat 7:21

Christ paid the debt in full. How dare anyone say it wasn't enough or complete.

"I Paul am made a minister. Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are lacking of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church". Col 1:24

Christ paid the debt in full for all men. But is it applied to everyone? Was Paul's offering of himself for the sake of the church pointless?

Regards

8,242 posted on 01/31/2007 8:10:09 PM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: Blogger
you preach another gospel

I trust the reader can decide who of us makes a scriptural discourse in context and who offers personal opinions loosely connected to verses out of context.

8,249 posted on 01/31/2007 8:22:15 PM PST by annalex
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