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To: blue-duncan

Still this passage is equally consistent with the officers of the synagogue referring to Christ's cousins, once we realize that the word adelphos applied to cousins, and even more distant relatives. All the more so because James and Joseph are identified in Mark 15 as having different mother.

Your method is common to the Protestant analysis in general: take a short passage, use the vernacular translation literally, do not look at context, do not look at the related passages elsewhere, and thump the table with it. Do it when that contradicts the traidtional teaching. Do not do it when the same method confirms the traditional teaching (re-read James 2:24 through the same lense and get back to me). No sale.


618 posted on 12/07/2006 2:36:22 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; BibChr; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
There is a word for cousin, suggenes. If they had wanted to use the word cousin, they could have used it. Instead, they used the word "adelphos." Interestingly, adelphos is a compound word that means "from the same womb."

Note how in Luke 14 & 21, Adelphos and Suggenes are in the same list. In other words, they are different from one another.

Lu 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Lu 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Lu 2:44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

Lu 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.

Lu 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

623 posted on 12/07/2006 2:58:27 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: annalex

"Your method is common to the Protestant analysis in general: take a short passage, use the vernacular translation literally, do not look at context, do not look at the related passages elsewhere"

I gave you the context of the passage I used and in previous posts gave you related passages and below there are more. I have yet to see any scripture that supports your position. I have seen conjecture and outside sources but no scripture. Here again is the passage in context.

Matt. 13:53 "And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"

The statement is clear. The officers of the synagogue, no friend of Jesus and yet familiar with His family, familiar enough to identify the work his father does, his mother's name and his brother's name and that the family lives in the same community. They recognize Jesus as;

the carpenter's son,
Mary's son,
brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon,
brother of his sisters.

Then they say that the family "all" is still with them i.e. living among them. An outsider would not use the familiar term "brethren" to refer to Jesus' entourage.


"Still this passage is equally consistent with the officers of the synagogue referring to Christ's cousins, once we realize that the word adelphos applied to cousins, and even more distant relatives"

Nowhere in the New Testament is adelphos used to mean cousin or distant relative. In Luke 1:36, "And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren." the word for cousin is suggenes.

Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn" son which implies there were more children. If He was Mary's only son it would refer to Him as the only begotten, or only son as He is referred to when He is spoken of in relation to God the Father.

Matt. 1:25, "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

Luke 2:7, "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."

Now we have shown that there is a Greek word for cousin, not adelphos, and it is used in reference to Mary, here are the verses that clearly distinguish Jesus' brothers from the Apostles and disciples.

Acts 1:13-14, "And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren."

John 7:3-5, "His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest. For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. For neither did his brethren believe in him." (This verse is especially telling for how can they be followers if the did not believe Him. Only family could be called brothers and not believe Him)

Luke8:19, "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

John 2:12, "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

Gal. 1:19, "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." (If Apostles were "brothers" why was it necessary to add to the identity of James "the Lord's brother"?)

1 Cor. 9:5, "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"


675 posted on 12/07/2006 7:00:13 PM PST by blue-duncan
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