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To: annalex

"Your method is common to the Protestant analysis in general: take a short passage, use the vernacular translation literally, do not look at context, do not look at the related passages elsewhere"

I gave you the context of the passage I used and in previous posts gave you related passages and below there are more. I have yet to see any scripture that supports your position. I have seen conjecture and outside sources but no scripture. Here again is the passage in context.

Matt. 13:53 "And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"

The statement is clear. The officers of the synagogue, no friend of Jesus and yet familiar with His family, familiar enough to identify the work his father does, his mother's name and his brother's name and that the family lives in the same community. They recognize Jesus as;

the carpenter's son,
Mary's son,
brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon,
brother of his sisters.

Then they say that the family "all" is still with them i.e. living among them. An outsider would not use the familiar term "brethren" to refer to Jesus' entourage.


"Still this passage is equally consistent with the officers of the synagogue referring to Christ's cousins, once we realize that the word adelphos applied to cousins, and even more distant relatives"

Nowhere in the New Testament is adelphos used to mean cousin or distant relative. In Luke 1:36, "And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren." the word for cousin is suggenes.

Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn" son which implies there were more children. If He was Mary's only son it would refer to Him as the only begotten, or only son as He is referred to when He is spoken of in relation to God the Father.

Matt. 1:25, "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

Luke 2:7, "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."

Now we have shown that there is a Greek word for cousin, not adelphos, and it is used in reference to Mary, here are the verses that clearly distinguish Jesus' brothers from the Apostles and disciples.

Acts 1:13-14, "And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren."

John 7:3-5, "His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest. For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. For neither did his brethren believe in him." (This verse is especially telling for how can they be followers if the did not believe Him. Only family could be called brothers and not believe Him)

Luke8:19, "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

John 2:12, "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

Gal. 1:19, "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." (If Apostles were "brothers" why was it necessary to add to the identity of James "the Lord's brother"?)

1 Cor. 9:5, "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"


675 posted on 12/07/2006 7:00:13 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; annalex
BD, you have missed Alex's point. In Greek, despite the fact that there are words which directly translate the English word cousin (the word is ξαδελφος, the word you used, συγγεννες, means relation or kinsman)the fact is, whether you as an English speaker want to accept it or not, the Greek word αδελφος which indeed does mean brother can and often does also mean cousin or a male relative of some sort. Your argument that the Temple elders spoke of Christ they also spoke of his "brothers" and "sisters" in a context which indicates they all lived in the same place and thus must be what we in English call brothers and sisters, doesn't wash. Until WWII in the Middle East and even in Greece, groups of related people all lived on pretty much the same patch of ground, though in different houses usually (but by no means always). These places, like my own family's land in Greece, is almost like a family compound; in fact some are exactly that. What you are reading describes a set up like my own family's 70 years ago in Greece (pretty much so even to this day). BD, the fact is that until a generation or two after the Reformers, no Christian believed that Christ had brothers and sisters the way we in English use those words. Your interpretation is in great measure ethno and glossocentric.
681 posted on 12/07/2006 7:15:22 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: blue-duncan

I think your point is best made with Matt 1:25, and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus. It makes no sense that Mary became infertile.


720 posted on 12/07/2006 10:26:25 PM PST by spunkets
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