[Antoninus]

When I ask my friend for prayer, my head isn't bowed and my mind is not cleared and focused only on God. At that moment I am having a conversation with my human friend. That is completely different.

If you think of the Saints as being alive (which they are in Heaven), then it is exactly like talking to a friend--and one who has the advantage of standing in the presence of Almighty God. Using your logic, you're absolutely wasting your time asking your earthly friends to pray for you as well. The time spent asking other Christians on earth to pray for you, again using your logic, could be better spent speaking directly to God.

If I decided to spend the next 5 minutes in prayer, I would spend all of it with my Master only, I would NOT spend the whole time talking to some dead guy I've never met, asking him to put in a good word for me with God.

I think the crux of the difference is that some of you view the Saints as "a bunch of dead guys." Catholics view them as very much alive and available to them.

[Forest Keeper]

Using your logic, you're absolutely wasting your time asking your earthly friends to pray for you as well. The time spent asking other Christians on earth to pray for you, again using your logic, could be better spent speaking directly to God.

No, it is absolutely sound by the scriptures for live humans to pray for one another, and by extension to ask for it. When my friend asks me to pray for him, not only does it benefit him for the fact of my prayer, but it also benefits me in the making of it. I see this as completely different from praying to deceased saints who may or may not actually be in Heaven. What scripture is used to defend the propriety of praying to the physically deceased for intercession with God?

I think the crux of the difference is that some of you view the Saints as "a bunch of dead guys." Catholics view them as very much alive and available to them.

Well in a sense, they ARE a bunch of dead guys. :) We believe that upon physical death the saved among them go directly to Heaven, where they are very "alive". This includes any or all of who you would call the Saints. This is scriptural. However, I am not certain of the scripture that says that these "spirits" are actually available to us.

I have been told by other Catholics that it is permissible to pray to such others as deceased relatives for intercession. Is that your understanding as well? If it is, and if you would agree that it would be a waste of time to pray to a "spirit" in purgatory or hell, then how does a Catholic make such a prayer with any confidence since one cannot know where the "spirit" of a lost relative is?