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To: Blogger

Sorry, but I don't believe things because the Latin church (whose claim to catholicity, as an Orthodox Christian I vigorously dispute) teaches them, but because the Fathers of the Church, some of whom read the Scriptures with the advantage not only of being native speakers of koine Greek, but of being part of the same culture as the Holy Apostles and Evangelists, understand the Scriptures in a given way.

I no more follow the Popes of Rome, save those in ancient times who confessed the Orthodox faith, than I do disobedient German monks, who after 1500 or so years decided that the Scriptures meant something they had never been understood to mean, by introducing false dichotomies into their interpretation, and had the arrogance to throw out books of the Old Testament because the Christ-denying rabbis who met at Jamnia in 90 A.D. hadn't kept them in the Jewish canon.

Take heed yourself: if your faith doesn't bring forth good works, then it's not faith at all.


4,768 posted on 01/09/2007 7:45:27 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: The_Reader_David

Your last statement I agree with. But my works do not save me. NONE of us believes that good works don't have to follow true faith. If it is true faith good works WILL follow. We are just saying salvation is NOT OF US. It is of God. Our works don't get us saved. Our works don't keep us saved. It is ALL Jesus.

Through His grace, once we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us and works in our lives producing good works. If that fruit isn't there, chances are that one of two things has happened 1)We are not truly saved and our claim to faith is a delusion or lie 2)We are truly saved, but were never discipled to grow through the Word of God. Say someone is saved at a Billy Graham crusade, but never plugs into a place where he can hear God's Word. Instead, he goes to the first church of the Television and picks out a preacher than he likes to hear. You are likely to not see a lot of growth there. He will be fed milk all of his life and will stagnate. That person may still be saved, but their fruits may only be that they are kinder people (not something easy to quantify if you want to be a fruit inspector).

If they had been discipled, by that point they might even be the teachers themselves.

The Bible says that there will be people in heaven who are saved yet as by fire. There aren't really a lot of rewards for folks like that and yet, they are there. Why? Because it isn't because of works of righteousness which they had done but by his mercy he saved us (Titus 2).

Off the subject, trying to figure out who all I am talking to, The_Reader_David, Kosta, Kawaii, and Kolokotronis are the Orthodox on this thread. Are there more?


4,795 posted on 01/10/2007 4:36:20 AM PST by Blogger (In nullo gloriandum quando nostrum nihil sit- Cyprian)
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