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To: The_Reader_David

Your last statement I agree with. But my works do not save me. NONE of us believes that good works don't have to follow true faith. If it is true faith good works WILL follow. We are just saying salvation is NOT OF US. It is of God. Our works don't get us saved. Our works don't keep us saved. It is ALL Jesus.

Through His grace, once we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us and works in our lives producing good works. If that fruit isn't there, chances are that one of two things has happened 1)We are not truly saved and our claim to faith is a delusion or lie 2)We are truly saved, but were never discipled to grow through the Word of God. Say someone is saved at a Billy Graham crusade, but never plugs into a place where he can hear God's Word. Instead, he goes to the first church of the Television and picks out a preacher than he likes to hear. You are likely to not see a lot of growth there. He will be fed milk all of his life and will stagnate. That person may still be saved, but their fruits may only be that they are kinder people (not something easy to quantify if you want to be a fruit inspector).

If they had been discipled, by that point they might even be the teachers themselves.

The Bible says that there will be people in heaven who are saved yet as by fire. There aren't really a lot of rewards for folks like that and yet, they are there. Why? Because it isn't because of works of righteousness which they had done but by his mercy he saved us (Titus 2).

Off the subject, trying to figure out who all I am talking to, The_Reader_David, Kosta, Kawaii, and Kolokotronis are the Orthodox on this thread. Are there more?


4,795 posted on 01/10/2007 4:36:20 AM PST by Blogger (In nullo gloriandum quando nostrum nihil sit- Cyprian)
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To: Blogger; The_Reader_David
What difference should there be if one is preaching or just watches someone preaching if he or she is 'saved?' Obviously, even the reformers believe that work does matter as long as it is the work of faith!

Trouble is with being 'saved' before being judged. And we shall be judged according to what we have done. If we are saved based on what we have done, then we will be saved by God's mercy alone because there is nothing we could possibly do to earn our salvation. However, it is important to God what we do.

Last moment repentance (the 'thief trick') will not work if you have been baptized and a christian all your life. Non-Christians can repent at the last moment; we have no excuse.

We cannot be saved by works, but our works will be the basis of our judgment. So, shed that cozy, don't-worry-be-happy macarena attitude dear protestant brothers, and get to work!

There is no salvation before judgment. That is another feel-good protestant innovation. Only after judgment will we be either saved or condemned; only then will we have a ticket to heaven or hell. But which ticket we get will have a lot to do with what we have done, for we shall be judged on it and while none of us deserve salvation, some will receive it for no other reason that God's incredible mercy.

4,809 posted on 01/10/2007 5:00:49 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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