[HarleyD]

Okay, seriously, I can't speak for the intentions of everyone, but I personally do not bow down to idols or images. I may bow down before them but my heart is making reverence or prostration not to something I imagine is in the image.

With all due respect, don't you think the worshipers of Zeus would say the same thing? "This statue isn't really Zeus but it helps me to revere him. Zeus is really in heaven."

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.

It wasn't just idols or graven images. People were not to even set up images to bow down to them.

I understand the distinction Catholics try to make of veneration over worship. It's theological hair splitting in my opinion. All one has to do is look up veneration in the dictionary.

[wagglebee]

It wasn't just idols or graven images. People were not to even set up images to bow down to them.

You mean like the church shown here where people adorn a tomb with flowers and there is a statue of a man praying to other statues?

[kawaii]

Kosta;s point on this makes perfect sense. Folks venerate the flag during the pledge of alligeance, it's not flag worshipping.

[Mad Dawg]

It's theological hair splitting in my opinion. All one has to do is look up veneration in the dictionary.

Okay. So let's be clear. You can say we commit idolatry and worship Mary. We can say we don't. And that's the end of the converstion because the distinction which seems critical to us is mere hairsplitting to you.

So what's the purpose of the conversation? We just sit here while you charge us with breaking the first and second commandments and then we all say, "Have a nice day (or not)," and go our ways?

Even after I've thought about it, it doesn't seem to be hairsplitting to me. I know the difference between a ceqture and the Creator even if y'all don't think I do.

The way some people here haul out lengthy quotes from authors I've never heard of, there seems to me to be right much veneration (if not worship) going on among some of the Protestant brethren. "It is so because So-and-so says it is; looky here." And, just for completeness, any claims that these authors were quoted for their clarity of expression rather than their authority will be considered mere hairsplitting and parsing by me. (I'm kidding while trying to make a point.)

And, no, I think some idolaters talk about their images as though something or somebody were there. Certainly the ashtaroth and herms and what not were considered intrinisically sacred.