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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Rushing in where angels fear to tread:
Which all begs the question, WHY does the Catholic church venerate, pray to and for all appearances worship the woman, Mary.

And why do men fall to their knees to a likeness of her when Scripture specifically forbids this?

As to "venerate": I can only talk about my own experience. Some 20 years before I became Catholic it occurred to me one day that Mary had said "Yes," to God's call, delivered by the angel. And that saying such a total "yes," was answered with her having a major role in bringing Love itself into the world. And I realized, I wanted to do that. At that point Mary became one of my heroes, ahead, even, of Chuck Norris.

As to "pray to": I ask people to pray for me, and I pray for others, sometimes at their request and sometimes not. Good people who strike me as about as holy as a human can be this side of death ask for Mary's intercession. I am impressed by their example. I continue to follow the example because the practice seems favorably associated with ineffable rewards.

As to "appearances": People often see what they want to see and stop looking too quickly. People often prefer leaping to a conclusion which confirms their prejudices to moving slowly and cautiously toward the truth.

As to: "And why do men fall to their knees to a likeness of her when Scripture specifically forbids this?": We do it to scandalize Protestants.

Okay, seriously, I can't speak for the intentions of everyone, but I personally do not bow down to idols or images. I may bow down before them but my heart is making reverence or prostration not to something I imagine is in the image. There was, I believe, an ecumenical council about this.

Now I have a question: Why do SOME Protestants insist that Catholics believe and do what we do neither believe nor do and then change the subject or avoid the issue when we present evidence of the truth in answer to their statements? Is there a book of Psychology about that?

Or, put it another way: Why do the nations so furiously rage together, and why do the people imagine a vain thing? When it comes to saying that Catholics do the very thing they repeatedly deny and explain deny or believe what they repeatedly say they don't believe -- well things don't get much more "vain" than that. It suggests that maybe, just maybe, some people have taken counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed.

Oh wait. We don't read the Bible either.

4,582 posted on 01/09/2007 7:01:23 AM PST by Mad Dawg (horate hoti ex ergon dikaioutai anthropos kai ouk ek pisteos monon; Jas 2:24)
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To: Mad Dawg; Dr. Eckleburg

Great post.

Dr. Eckleburg, regarding the appearances of the Blessed Virgin, only she can answer your question. Ask.


4,606 posted on 01/09/2007 9:35:27 AM PST by annalex
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To: Mad Dawg; annalex; Blogger; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Gamecock
As to "appearances": People often see what they want to see and stop looking too quickly. People often prefer leaping to a conclusion which confirms their prejudices to moving slowly and cautiously toward the truth.

And yet it appears Annalex does not shirk from that conclusion. Rather, he agreed with it in his post #4,585 by answering the question "...why does the Catholic church venerate, pray to and for all appearances worship the woman, Mary?" with his response --

Annalex: "'Cuz she's Mother of God? Just a wild guess."

Annalex didn't nitpick or whittle down the truth of his actions or beliefs by parsing words and I admire him for it (although I disagree with his conclusion.)

I personally do not bow down to idols or images. I may bow down before them but my heart is making reverence or prostration not to something I imagine is in the image.

See? There you go again. "I bow down 'before' idols; I don't bow down 'to' idols."

The end result of this prepositional switch is the same -- you are kneeling before gold and silver and wood and paint.

"Shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?"

Scripture says "No."

why do the people imagine a vain thing?

Apparently you've answered your own question in the next paragraph...

We don't read the Bible either.

4,611 posted on 01/09/2007 9:50:27 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg; Dr. Eckleburg
Okay, seriously, I can't speak for the intentions of everyone, but I personally do not bow down to idols or images. I may bow down before them but my heart is making reverence or prostration not to something I imagine is in the image.

With all due respect, don't you think the worshipers of Zeus would say the same thing? "This statue isn't really Zeus but it helps me to revere him. Zeus is really in heaven."

It wasn't just idols or graven images. People were not to even set up images to bow down to them.

I understand the distinction Catholics try to make of veneration over worship. It's theological hair splitting in my opinion. All one has to do is look up veneration in the dictionary.

4,666 posted on 01/09/2007 12:19:38 PM PST by HarleyD ("...even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near Himself." Num 16:5)
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