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To: vladimir998
Dave Armstrong? LOLOL!

Let's see what Trent had to say, and then read what Scripture has to say...

COUNCIL OF TRENT

CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

(1."Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).)

(2. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).)

(3."Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).)

(4. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).)

(5. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).)

(6. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).)

(7. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost," (Titus 3:5).)

CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"

(1. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).)

(2. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).)

(3. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).)

(4. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself," (Heb. 7:25-27).)

(5. "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day," (2 Tim. 1:12).)

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

(1. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).)

(2. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).)

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

(1. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," (John 3:36).)

(2. "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day," (John 6:40).)

(3. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand," (John 10:28).)

(4. "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord," (Rom. 5:21).)

(5. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us," (1 John 2:19).)

(6. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God," (1 John 5:13).)

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

(1. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).)

(2. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law," (Gal. 5:1-3).)

Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

(1. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).)

(2. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross," (Col. 2:13-14).)

Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.


4,330 posted on 01/07/2007 1:13:21 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Your recital of Catholic teachings as I outlined is false. Is that falsehood intentional?


4,332 posted on 01/07/2007 1:16:10 PM PST by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

You wrote: "This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned."

Incorrect. What are you going to do next? I suppose we'll get the usual false line on "anathema" right?

Anathema had more than one meaning in the Church. In the NT it meant accursed. In the canons it meant cut off. A person was excommunicated when anathematized.

Also, what EXACTLY are you carping about in the canons of Trent. Be specific.


4,341 posted on 01/07/2007 1:47:15 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Again, from Dave Armstrong:

Doctrinal Summary
(of every Chapter and Canon on Justification from Trent)

1. Man cannot justify himself (which includes works): contra Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism: Decree on Justification: chapter 5; Canons 1, 2, 3 on Justification.

2. Justification is by Grace Alone: Decree on Justification: chapter 8; Canon 10.

3. Initial justification by Grace Alone may be increased through mortification, observing God's commandments, and works (see James 2:24): Decree on Justification: chapters 7,10, 11.

4. Justification by Faith Alone is false: Decree on Justification: chapter 11; Canons 9, 29.

5. Good works and merit proceed wholly from the grace of God through the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf (not from ourselves). They are necessary but they do not earn salvation, which
is by grace alone: Decree on Justification: chapter 16; Canons 18, 19, 20, 24, 26, 32, 33.

6. Man must cooperate with God's grace in order to receive an increase in justification: Canons 4, 22.

7. Good works done in God's grace really are good, and not evil because of our fallen nature, and they deserve a reward (not salvation, but recompense): Canons 6, 7, 25, 31.

8. Extrinsic, imputed, merely external or declared justification is false: Canon 11.

9. "Faith in one's own faith" or "assurance of salvation" is false: Decree on Justification: Chapters 9, 12; Canons 12, 13, 14, 15.

10. Men can fall away from grace (but not faith) and justification, through mortal sin, and must persevere: Decree on Justification: Chapters 11, 13, 15; Canons 16, 17, 23, 27, 28.

11. Temporal punishment for sin in this world and the next (purgatory) is necessary for most people: Canon 30.

12. Men are fallen (original sin) and are by nature children of wrath, and cannot be saved by the law: Decree on Justification: Chapter 1.

13. Man has a free will: adversely affected and limited by the fall, but not extinguished: Decree on Justification: Chapter 1.

14. Jesus Christ is the propitiator, through His blood, for the sins of the whole human race (universal atonement): Decree on Justification: Chapter 2.

15. Being born again and regenerated is necessary for grace, justification, redemption, and reception of the benefits of Christ's death (justification through Christ): Decree on Justification:
Chapters 3, 4.

16. Adults can and must be disposed by God's grace to accept God's graces for justification, repent, do penance, and be baptized: Decree on Justification: Chapters 6, 7.

17. Justification and sanctification are joined together, caused by Jesus Christ's Passion on the Cross and God's grace, and accepted freely by man. Faith, hope, and charity are also infused
in this justification: Decree on Justification: Chapter 7.

18. Those who fall away from following the Lord and from grace can be restored through the sacrament of penance: Decree on Justification: Chapter 14.

19. The fear of hell is not a sin: Canon 8.

20. One must obey Jesus Christ as well as trust Him: Canon 21.

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/12/council-of-trent-canons-on.html


4,342 posted on 01/07/2007 1:57:46 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Let's see what Trent had to say, and then read what Scripture has to say...

Amen, Dr. E.! Outstanding post.

5,466 posted on 01/12/2007 3:17:09 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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