Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Blogger
The disciples that left did so because they did not believe or have faith that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God - not because they were repulsed at the thought of drinking His blood and eating His flesh.

It is true that they left after they received the entire explanation of the Real Presence, and that included the fact the Jesus is the Christ. But their initial objection was to the offer of His flesh in the literal sense; the explanation Jesus gave confirmed the literal sense.

Read the entire book of Romans, the entire book of Galatians, the entire New Testament and then compare James with that.

I have. The Church has. She wrote all these books. You are left to assert that James did not mean it when he said "by works a man is justified; and not by faith only", or Jesus in Mathew 25 does not mean it when He lists charitable work as the criterion by which sheep are separated from goats, or that Christ doies not mean it in Apocalipse when He said "I .. judge everyone according to his works", or again, Jesus did not mean to say, in John 6, "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man you do not have life in you". The references to works that are not salvific are works of obligation, or works of vanity, or works for reward, or works of Jewish ceremonial law. There is never a characterisation of works of love (=charity) as not salvific; to the contrary, love is set forth as the greates virtue and exhortations are made in every book to do them. The reference to the works being in plain evidence, as opposed to faith being an inward quality are meant to explain that one is impossible without the other; James never says that works are a mere outcome of faith, as the protestant spin suggests.

This assertion [that mass is a presentation across time of one sacrifice of Christ] is taught NOWHERE in scripture

"This is my body; do it in memorial of me" is in every synoptic gospel.

Then salvation is not a gift. It is a merit.

You do not die on the Cross to make the Eucharist possible. Christ did. To freely do what He asks is not a merit in the sense of commanding God to save you; the sovereignty of God does not suffer because of the salvific character of certain works. Is there a merit in acts of piety? -- definitely. But God remains sovereign through this, and your objection vanishes.

3,891 posted on 01/04/2007 12:15:24 PM PST by annalex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3767 | View Replies ]


To: annalex
It is true that they left after they received the entire explanation of the Real Presence, and that included the fact the Jesus is the Christ. But their initial objection was to the offer of His flesh in the literal sense; the explanation Jesus gave confirmed the literal sense.
No it wasn't. Their initial concern was that he said he came from Heaven. THen they could not understand his saying about eating his flesh. Then the focus goes back to Jesus having come from heaven and they murmur. It is at THAT POINT, not because they are upset over the bread , that they leave. They don't believe He is sent from God. Peter attests to this interpretation clearly when he says to Jesus' question about leaving "where will we go? You have the words of life. And we know for sure and don't doubt who you are. (Paraphrased).

Read the entire book of Romans, the entire book of Galatians, the entire New Testament and then compare James with that.

I have. The Church has. She wrote all these books. You are left to assert that James did not mean it when he said "by works a man is justified"

No I am not. I know what James meant and he is in harmony with Paul. You are not.

This assertion [that mass is a presentation across time of one sacrifice of Christ] is taught NOWHERE in scripture

"This is my body; do it in memorial of me" is in every synoptic gospel.


Not your teaching of it. Period. Jesus nowhere says that his body must be sacrificed time and time and time again. He said IT IS FINISHED. It was done at the cross. No more sacrifice for sin. NONE. The cross was sufficient.

Then salvation is not a gift. It is a merit.

You do not die on the Cross to make the Eucharist possible. Christ did. To freely do what He asks is not a merit in the sense of commanding God to save you; the sovereignty of God does not suffer because of the salvific character of certain works.


NOT OF WORKS. PERIOD.


Do a Bible gateway search on works and ask this question - is this verse saying that I am not saved by works at all. Many are saying that very thing. Multiple books. James must be harmonized with the others, not the others with James. Rightly understood, there is no conflict. He says show me your faith by your works. He doesn't want people saying a quick prayer or a quick confession and then going there merry way. That is not true Christianity. If I say I am a Christian but do nothing for the Lord, then my Christianity is dead. There is no evidence I was Ever a Christian. However, if I don't say verbally I'm a Christian, but show the love of the Lord in my life then folks know I am likely a Christian.

You're living in Galatia. Paul was not pleased with this kind of gospel which is being preached by the Roman Catholic church.

3,947 posted on 01/04/2007 6:54:28 PM PST by Blogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3891 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson