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To: AlbionGirl
I am very sorry for your loss. the minister's eyes filled with tears

You point to a very real difference between the Catholic and Orthodox faith on one hand, the Protestantism on the other. In this instance the difference appears a defect of the sacramental apostolic churches. But I don't want the whole depth of the difference to be left without comment.

It is sown in corruption, it shall rise in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonour, it shall rise in glory. It is sown in weakness, it shall rise in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it shall rise a spiritual body. If there be a natural body, there is also a spiritual body, as it is written: 45 The first man Adam was made into a living soul; the last Adam into a quickening spirit. 46 Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, earthly: the second man, from heaven, heavenly. 48 Such as is the earthly, such also are the earthly: and such as is the heavenly, such also are they that are heavenly. 49 Therefore as we have borne the image of the earthly, let us bear also the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption. (1 Cor 15)
The actual word St. Paul uses here, thranslated as "natural" is "psychikos". The meaning is that of the phychological nature, or of the passion, and it is contrasted tot he "pneumatikos", the spiritual. Our passions are to die, our spirit is to rise. St. Paul often returns to this theme, as he teaches to avoid anger and combat other strong emotions and attachments. This distinction, between the passionate and the spiritual, is reflected in the absence of emotion that is characteristic of the Catholic and Orthodox liturgy. Symmetrically, the evengelical service is often highly emotionally charged. Many complain about the absence of passion in Catholic service as indifference, -- they do not feel as if they are being fed. A supercharge experience of an evangelical altar call is a frequent basis of people joining evangelical churches. In contrast, a good priest serves as if the congregation is not there.

This is just the way things are.

382 posted on 12/06/2006 9:46:48 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
Thanks, alex.

You have a child, don't you? I ask because I know that those with children probably understand such a loss perhaps even better than I do, in a way, because I was his sister and not his mother.

My mother is a remarkable woman, she said she felt like our Lord's Blessed Mother at my brother's feet. He was hit and killed very close to where we lived. His friends came up the driveway calling, "Patrick's been hit". We ran to him, and my Mom became incontinent because she knew, and I knew he was dead.

Thank you for letting me speak of him, it does my heart good, especially at this time of the year.

388 posted on 12/06/2006 9:59:26 AM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: annalex; AlbionGirl
A supercharge experience of an evangelical altar call is a frequent basis of people joining evangelical churches.

I don't think the minister's reaction was due to any overly-emotional "alter call" type of experience.

I think the minister's tears were because he had children of his own and he was experiencing AG's mother's pain along with her.

It would be difficult to look at a lifeless child and not see your own child's face. (I can hardly type these sentences. I can only grasp at the reality.)

AG, you and your mother will see Patrick again in heaven. Forever.

396 posted on 12/06/2006 10:13:44 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: annalex
St. Paul often returns to this theme, as he teaches to avoid anger and combat other strong emotions and attachments. This distinction, between the passionate and the spiritual, is reflected in the absence of emotion that is characteristic of the Catholic and Orthodox liturgy.

Interesting perspective. However, the God of the Bible impresses me as seriously passionate. The notion that shutting down the emotions makes us "higher" creatures sounds more like Buddhism than Christianity.

399 posted on 12/06/2006 10:15:56 AM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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