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To: kosta50; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; Blogger; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; ...
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE! :)

FK: "How do you describe what happened when Jesus prayed? Was He talking to Himself?"

No. He was praying to God the Father, to the First Person of the Holy Trinity, not to divine nature, just as He was calling on the Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, and not on divine nature.

How do we DISTINGUISH the three persons from the one divine nature? I ask because I have some experience in this area and the results were most unfortunate for me! LOL!

Under what you say above, would it be equally proper for the Father to pray to the Spirit, or for the Spirit to pray to the Father, or for either to pray to Christ? Is first, second, third "person" an order of importance?

3,271 posted on 01/01/2007 3:14:06 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

"How do we DISTINGUISH the three persons from the one divine nature? I ask because I have some experience in this area and the results were most unfortunate for me! LOL!"

Continuing Orthodox Education!

"God is known and understood in everything in three hypostases. He holds all things and provides for all things through His Son in the Holy Spirit; and no one of Them, wherever He is invoked, is named or thought of as existing apart or separately from the two others." +Gregory of Sinai

And

"Trinity is simple unity; it is not merged together - it is three in one. The One three-hypostatical God has the three hypostases perfectly distinct in Himself." +Gregory of Sinai

And

"God is the only Being that truly is - the only eternal and immutable Being - who neither receives being from non-being nor returns to non-being; who is Tri-hypostatic and Almighty" +Gregory Palamas

And

"The transcendently and absolutely perfect Goodness is Intellect; thus what else could the which proceeds from It as from a source be except Intelligence-content or Logos? But the divine Logos is not to be understood in the same way as the human thought-form that we express orally, for that proceeds not from the intellect but from a body activated by the intellect...Thus the supreme Logos is the Son, and is so described by us, in order that we may recognize Him to be perfect in a perfect and individual hypostasis, since He comes from the Father and is in no way inferior to the Father's essence, but is indistinguishably identical with Him, although not according to hypostasis; for His distinction as hypostasis is manifest in the fact that the Logos is begotten in a divinely fitting manner from the Father." +Gregory Palamas

Happy New Year, FK!


3,273 posted on 01/01/2007 5:41:43 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper

There does seem to be an order of the person's of the trinity. The Son does as the Father wishes, the Spirit testifies not of Himself but of the Son. Yet, the three are One God. Certainly more than my little mind can comprehend!


3,275 posted on 01/01/2007 9:49:37 AM PST by Blogger
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To: Forest Keeper; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; Blogger; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan
How do we DISTINGUISH the three persons from the one divine nature?

You don't. The only Hypostasis (Person) that is distinguished for being human and divine is the Son in that within Him subsist two distinguished natures, one corporeal and human and the other one incorporeal and divine.

The distinction of the Hypostases is revealed in the so-called Divine Economy of our Salvation, as God reveals Himself as Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all three co-substantial (co-essential), sharing the same divinity (divine nature), all three being equally God, equally divine.

In the process of our salvation, God sends His Son to atone for us, and the Son sends the Spirit once this has been accomplished, so that the Spirit may guide us until the Son returns. But God never leaves us! It is only that Hypostatically God accomplishes different tasks that matter to our salvation.

There can never be a greater sin than to blaspheme against the Spirit (the only transgression that cannot be redeemed), yet the Spirit is often trated as the "third" in line in the West, concentrating mroe on the unified "God," and mentioning the Son more in His human nature.

I believe Kolokotronis, and others (myself included) have, in the past, given you plenty of patristic literature to ponder and easily answer your inquiries, as the Church understood them all along.

One such link is to St. John of Damascus, the last of the so-called "Desert Fathers" whose clarity, in my opinion, supercedes that of the 13th century St. Gregory Palamas.

This is what St. John Damascene says concerning the Word and the Son of God:

Notice his first sentence: so this then one and only God is not Wordless. The creative Intellect (the Wisdom, sofia) of the Father is not without a creative Word or the Creative Spirit (something that we, made in the image and likeness of God, even if severely tarnished, understand intrinsically, since our own intellect cannot be wordless either!) in order to be expressed.

3,278 posted on 01/01/2007 11:16:29 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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